Freedom - what does it entail?

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by tzu

Nondualism is a conceptual belief, not an existent condition..

evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The term "nondual" (meaning "not two") can refer to a belief, condition, theory, practice, or quality. The concept of Nondualism has been linked with "Monism" or "qualified monism" with which it is sometimes confused (even conflated). However, the general concept of "nonduality" is now a pervasive paradigm in Western scholarship throughout diverse academic disciplines.

condition - a state of being

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[andrew g]

Originally Posted by hybrid

you've never heard of transpersonal life?


.

No. whats all that about?

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by soprano

Hi guys:

I wanted to say hi. I see you guys keep shaking the waters between simplicity and variety.

Hope everybody is OK and wish all of you happy holidays. I don't know when and if I'll post something else in the near future, but who knows.

Andrew, I didn't read too much but you seem to keep evolving. Keep it up with your spiritual growing. Same for others ...

Andrew, being in Spain, Barcelona 5, Real Madrid 0. What a game!

Later,

All the love,

Claudio

Hey Clau, good to see you, wishing you all the best too. Are you on facebook? If you are, there is a spiritual forums facebook page which I can be found on if you want to befriend me and stay connected :) That goes for anyone else too by the way.

That is an amazing result by the way.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by andrew g

No. whats all that about?

transpersonal


,

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by hybrid

transpersonal


,

That all sounds well and good, sounds to me like a no-person 'experience' though, I think it even says something about it being beyond the 'personal'. Good old wiki. Beyond the personal we dont believe we HAVE a life as such, coz we dont perceive ourselves as separate from Life.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by andrew g

That all sounds well and good, sounds to me like a no-person 'experience' though, I think it even says something about it being beyond the 'personal'. .

exactly.
what's lamentable are those who have nothing but their usual fixated experience of personality has the gull to invalidate other experiences they know nothing about. because if they do, they wouldn't be so critical about it. and if they do and still critical about it, then they are just imposing their personal preference on everyone. a behavior driven by naked egotism.

.

I was thinking today while I was sat in the hospital waiting, about a few things and a question came into my head and it was....Would we rather continue through our lives having many random reactive thoughts or would we rather have conscious control over our thoughts and actions? I think that there are many ways we can view every situation or experience. Our perspective can be changed if we really want to change it....We can view a tragedy as an opportunity, If we really desire to. Instead of viewing a situation as a struggle we can change our perspective to see it as a challenge in our lives. We can choose higher and more loving responses at every point if we want to! I know its hard sometimes but no one can hurt or harm us unless we feel hurt or harmed in our own thoughts. I think that we control the feeling of victim hood in our own minds. How we live and what we do with our lives are solely at our discretion.

We always have to remember that events that have shaped us may have happened at a very early age or in past lives, long before we were physically or mentally prepared to deal with them in this life or one before. However, we do have this moment right now. It is the only moment we ever have and we are responsible for how we view it. Choice and responsibility.

What people do with their lives always has an impact on themselves as well as on the people and the environment around them and I think it is very important to realize this. This impact can have a wonderful effect when we choose to be compassionate , caring and loving in every action we take in our lives. We have to know that when we choose to be hateful, angry, wasteful, and harmful, however, this too has an impact on everyone and everything around us.

Why does one person loose a loved one in an accident and feel a total forgiveness and understanding, yet another person carries hatred, anger, and an unforgiving view? Why does one person accept a diagnosis of cancer as a blessing and another as a spiteful punishing act of god?

The answer I think is that one person takes responsibility for their thoughts and consciously chooses to take a more positive, loving approach. The other on the other hand becomes mired in negativity and refuses to interrupt the stream of these thoughts long enough to acknowledge them and invoke choice. Have you ever wanted something in life and wanted it strong enough to receive it? Your thought process did it...your will and intent. You had to want it enough to do what it took to get it. You had to know it was yours even before you got it. Total faith and trust. You took responsibility for yourself and choose a stream of thoughts that bought you what you wanted.

Why is one person an unemployed school drop out, while another works two jobs, starts a family and gets an education at night school? Why do we peruse war rather than peace? Why do we argue rather than discuss and help one another? It's a matter of choice. Who is responsible for their choices? ...Each of us! ...Because we can consciously choose our thoughts and we are responsible for our lives. If we remain unconscious of our thoughts, we are still responsible, for we made our choice to have unconscious thoughts. It is up to each of us to recognize and embrace the responsibility of our lives. No one has ever had, or ever will have, domination over our thoughts except ourselves.

If we pause and listen to our thoughts, and if we understand that we are always responsible for our thoughts, then we must also consider and comprehend our intent behind those thoughts. What is intent? Is it a moral, spiritual, or societal Issue? Is it a political or business issue?

We are totally responsible for our thoughts, and we alone govern our intent. What is your intent for the direction you want your life to move in? These are important things to consider and to.... also from time to time reconsider. Intent works along side every thought you have. You cannot have choice without intent......and you cannot have intent without responsibility. All three occur hand in hand at all times.

Think about the potential ramifications when you allow unconscious negative thoughts and emotions to run rampant in your mind, and then consider what you could accomplish by using conscious thought and choice. It is up to you, for it is always a thought. Choice, responsibility and intent these three very powerful concepts can propel you to vast new height of internal power, true will and oneness.

Peace and Love

Storm x

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by stormdancer

I was thinking today while I was sat in the hospital waiting, about a few things and a question came into my head and it was....Would we rather continue through our lives having many random reactive thoughts or would we rather have conscious control over our thoughts and actions? I think that there are many ways we can view every situation or experience. Our perspective can be changed if we really want to change it....We can view a tragedy as an opportunity, If we really desire to. Instead of viewing a situation as a struggle we can change our perspective to see it as a challenge in our lives. We can choose higher and more loving responses at every point if we want to! I know its hard sometimes but no one can hurt or harm us unless we feel hurt or harmed in our own thoughts. I think that we control the feeling of victim hood in our own minds. How we live and what we do with our lives are solely at our discretion.

We always have to remember that events that have shaped us may have happened at a very early age or in past lives, long before we were physically or mentally prepared to deal with them in this life or one before. However, we do have this moment right now. It is the only moment we ever have and we are responsible for how we view it. Choice and responsibility.

What people do with their lives always has an impact on themselves as well as on the people and the environment around them and I think it is very important to realize this. This impact can have a wonderful effect when we choose to be compassionate , caring and loving in every action we take in our lives. We have to know that when we choose to be hateful, angry, wasteful, and harmful, however, this too has an impact on everyone and everything around us.

Why does one person loose a loved one in an accident and feel a total forgiveness and understanding, yet another person carries hatred, anger, and an unforgiving view? Why does one person accept a diagnosis of cancer as a blessing and another as a spiteful punishing act of god?

The answer I think is that one person takes responsibility for their thoughts and consciously chooses to take a more positive, loving approach. The other on the other hand becomes mired in negativity and refuses to interrupt the stream of these thoughts long enough to acknowledge them and invoke choice. Have you ever wanted something in life and wanted it strong enough to receive it? Your thought process did it...your will and intent. You had to want it enough to do what it took to get it. You had to know it was yours even before you got it. Total faith and trust. You took responsibility for yourself and choose a stream of thoughts that bought you what you wanted.

Why is one person an unemployed school drop out, while another works two jobs, starts a family and gets an education at night school? Why do we peruse war rather than peace? Why do we argue rather than discuss and help one another? It's a matter of choice. Who is responsible for their choices? ...Each of us! ...Because we can consciously choose our thoughts and we are responsible for our lives. If we remain unconscious of our thoughts, we are still responsible, for we made our choice to have unconscious thoughts. It is up to each of us to recognize and embrace the responsibility of our lives. No one has ever had, or ever will have, domination over our thoughts except ourselves.

If we pause and listen to our thoughts, and if we understand that we are always responsible for our thoughts, then we must also consider and comprehend our intent behind those thoughts. What is intent? Is it a moral, spiritual, or societal Issue? Is it a political or business issue?

We are totally responsible for our thoughts, and we alone govern our intent. What is your intent for the direction you want your life to move in? These are important things to consider and to.... also from time to time reconsider. Intent works along side every thought you have. You cannot have choice without intent......and you cannot have intent without responsibility. All three occur hand in hand at all times.

Think about the potential ramifications when you allow unconscious negative thoughts and emotions to run rampant in your mind, and then consider what you could accomplish by using conscious thought and choice. It is up to you, for it is always a thought. Choice, responsibility and intent these three very powerful concepts can propel you to vast new height of internal power, true will and oneness.

Peace and Love

Storm x

i have my doubts about positive thinking.
i prefer realistic thinking

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Greetings..

Originally Posted by hybrid

exactly.
what's lamentable are those who have nothing but their usual fixated experience of personality has the gull to invalidate other experiences they know nothing about. because if they do, they wouldn't be so critical about it. and if they do and still critical about it, then they are just imposing their personal preference on everyone. a behavior driven by naked egotism.

What is lamentable is those that cannot accept their existence as it is.. and so they accuse others of "their usual fixated experience of personality", when in fact, there's no fixation, just acceptance of what is.. there are those, such as me, that have experiences of actual 'ISness'.. where the person 'is' as real as the holistic wholeness of it all.. and both conditions are True at the same time..

I know all about your beliefs, hybrid.. aside from your constant descriptions, i have researched those beliefs, i have had my version of the experiences you describe, complete with the same inclination to accept it as 'more better' than Truth.. but, what you describe is an aspect of Truth, as is the individual existent person, and both are valid.. i'm not invalidating your beliefs, i'm pointing-out that they are limited by self-imposed restrictions.. you reject the aspects of Truth you don't like.. and, the 'person', 'Tzu', seems to annoy you, why do you think that is?

I don't reject non-duality, i simly dont'accept the mis-identification of it's implications.. i have asked that someone demonstrate a truly non-dual condition.. it hasn't happened. What is being misunderstood is is how to communicate in a way that minimizes ambiguity.. when you use the term non-dual, outside mystical circles, its meaning is One, undifferentiated and indistinguishable.. and, in my efforts to understand the principles of such beliefs as Advaita, it occurs to me that the word and meaning of 'Unity' is better suited to the principles, and much less ambiguous..

These are simply my understandings of my relationship with Existence, interestingly they are uniquely different from yours or others.. they are based on the experiences 'I' have had over my 60 years in this physical incarnation, my interpretations of those experiences and my memories of those experiences.. my understandings are based on my 'person's integration with its body/mind.. it's just the way it is.. and, the 'person' i have cultivated to experience its body/mind's physical manifestation, i very clear about its temporal nature, more the reason for celebrating Life, 'Now'.. rather than intellectualizing a pretense to the 'person's non-existence..

Be well..

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


What is lamentable is those that cannot accept their existence as it is.. and so they accuse others of "their usual fixated experience of personality", when in fact, there's no fixation, just acceptance of what is.. there are those, such as me, that have experiences of actual 'ISness'.. where the person 'is' as real as the holistic wholeness of it all.. and both conditions are True at the same time..

I know all about your beliefs, hybrid.. aside from your constant descriptions, i have researched those beliefs, i have had my version of the experiences you describe, complete with the same inclination to accept it as 'more better' than Truth.. but, what you describe is an aspect of Truth, as is the individual existent person, and both are valid.. i'm not invalidating your beliefs, i'm pointing-out that they are limited by self-imposed restrictions.. you reject the aspects of Truth you don't like.. and, the 'person', 'Tzu', seems to annoy you, why do you think that is?

I don't reject non-duality, i simly dont'accept the mis-identification of it's implications.. i have asked that someone demonstrate a truly non-dual condition.. it hasn't happened. What is being misunderstood is is how to communicate in a way that minimizes ambiguity.. when you use the term non-dual, outside mystical circles, its meaning is One, undifferentiated and indistinguishable.. and, in my efforts to understand the principles of such beliefs as Advaita, it occurs to me that the word and meaning of 'Unity' is better suited to the principles, and much less ambiguous..

These are simply my understandings of my relationship with Existence, interestingly they are uniquely different from yours or others.. they are based on the experiences 'I' have had over my 60 years in this physical incarnation, my interpretations of those experiences and my memories of those experiences.. my understandings are based on my 'person's integration with its body/mind.. it's just the way it is.. and, the 'person' i have cultivated to experience its body/mind's physical manifestation, i very clear about its temporal nature, more the reason for celebrating Life, 'Now'.. rather than intellectualizing a pretense to the 'person's non-existence..

Be well..

i'll call this tzuism.
a misduided version of nondualism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism
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