The Pathology of God on Suffering.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by someguy92

For start God didnt suffered on cross as God is everything, everywhere,God is concept beyond our physical way of thinking...Jesus Christ and God are two different things.

Jesus Christ suffered because of our ignorance, he died for our sin, wich is ignorance, he was cold blodedly murdered for preaching truth and opposing the high temple money launders they ordered his murder, because they wanted to shut down truth and mainly stop enlightenement, wich was suppossed to come trough Jesus Christ.

Secondly God NEVER wants you to obey him, he wants you to listen to his advice, he NEVER would enslave you or make you do to hinder your free will. As a good father he wants you to be the best you can be.

Thirdly if you want to talk about terrorism etc. a political forum would be more suitable, this is forum about spirituality not about political ongoing.

"Guy", this is lower, ground level perception.
For one, in the ages of old testament writings, the prophesied and coming Savior is not seperate from God Almighty. Which is why in the New Testament, His atoning work on the Cross has the power to save, and to redeem.
Otherwise there is no power of it, or in it.

"The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to offer His life as a ransom for the many". - Jesus

Keyword? "Ransom".
This ordained work was begun by God from the beginning of the Old Testament scriptures, we see.

Involving sin? Yes, ignorance is involved.
Part of that is the lack of understanding what the world is,in time and space.
This evolved organic situation, in which we find ourselves, is "The Matrix".

My understanding and recognition of this is based on the alignment between the spiritual writings, and in modern Physics today. After much study.
What is your's based upon? Subjective opinion?

You bring up, "enslavement"? What did Jesus tell us about enslavement? It involves the very temporary, and illusory, "world", and this evolved, organic, animal/mammal situation in which we find ourselves.

Btw, the originator of this thread brought up the terrorist situation.

Originally Posted by mickiel

Look at the recent suffering in France ; terrorist are amping up their evil. Evil spreading all over the globe; and there are unseen powerful hands directing it!

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by athribiristan

Then there is no point listening to you. Anyone can copy and paste. Anyone can quote scripture. It certaily implies no understanding of said scripture. I respect someone who reads and reasons and posits their own theory, even if its wrong. Someone who simply vomits forth what they have read, without understanding, is worst than someone who says nothing. The danger of this is that someone might believe you. That would be suffering.

I am not fishing for listeners; and I am content with the views my thoughts get.

[Amilius777]

There has always been evil in the world. The Middle East like any other oppossing doesn't just wake up and be evil. The Middle East is massive wounded from th past. If you don't transform you pain and suffering you end up transmitting it in big or subtle ways. This is a dilapidated, fear based, super patriarchal society that has been hijacked by what I would call "principalities of darkness", those who run everything behind the curtain. Sure they may have "demonic" influences around them, but ultimately we are souls, divine beings in flesh, we have a choice to harken to which influence we desire. They don't control us unless we allow them to.

Jesus transformed his pain and suffering by his enemies into forgiveness and grace and wanted to be the example of the truth about "eternal life". They didn't want to be changed and transformed in themselves, the head priests and roman elite (principalities at the time) who controlled the masses. Who brought so many disincarnate Devils to Israel during those times? Making Jesus having to perform so many exorcisms and banishment prayers? The powers that ruled those lands opened those doors and the people were physically and spiritually oppressed. The "head devil" is fear. Fear is the absence of love, and fear is what drove Adam and eve from the divine presence in themselves to live simply exterior- ego based physical lIves and lost the Spirit. Jesus wiped away the fear of death by going straight into a horrible death that would leave his body mangled, destroyed, shed of blood (what his people at the time religious believed was the loss of the life-force or soul) . But he returned and remanifested to them all perfected, beautiful, and glorious as if nothing happened showing that the dead rise to a higher plane of consciousness and live on forever.

I don't get why so many people on here complicate so much about Jesus, evil, fear, death, suffering etc.

All Christian beliefs and dogmas and biblical beliefs are simply man made to point to a deeper truth. We sure don't believe in sacrificing goats anymore so why do we keep believing even stuff in the New Testament that contradicts one another?

[mickiel]

The thoughts of God on human suffering are of intrest, and it is no way possible he can be excluded from the root causes of it; because nothing sneaks past him and comes into existence on its on; only hard line evolutionist accept that things can create themselves.

The suffering did not create itself, and it has a divine purpose, which I want to go into again.

[athribiristan]

Originally Posted by CuriousSnowflake

I don't think Satan or Hell exist, but let's run with that construct for a second, just to take it to it's logical conclusion. God makes Lucifer, Lucifer rebels, God exiles Lucifer and makes him lord of Hell and (by some interpretations) Earth. Yet for God's plan for the world and mankind to take shape, the rebellion of Satan was utterly necessary. Also, Him being all-powerful and all, God would have known from before Lucifer was created what path he would take, and created him as such to fulfill his (L's) part of God's plan. So if L is a vital part of a perfect God's perfect plan, how is he imperfect?



Ahh, words. Such imperfect tools. I've expressed myself poorly on this subject, so let me back up a bit. When I say that the Divine cannot create imperfection, I am not saying that perfection does not exist, per se, nor am I implying that there is something the Divine cannot do. The former is obvious, the latter impossible. To understand what I mean, we need to dig a little deeper...

IMHO, the basic nature of all of existence is Unity, and all ideas of dichotomies (up/down, hot/cold, good/evil, and so on) are not truly real. Not to say they do not exist (they do) nor that they are unimportant (they are vital to the entire experience of physicality). What I am saying is that all dichotomies are value judgments, labels placed upon existence by conscious beings in order to organize our experience of physicality through relativity. A thing is not inherently hot, it is only hot in comparison to something else we call "cold".

Perfection and imperfection are massive examples of this. At least with temperature there is an objective phenomenon involved, namely the amount of vibrational kinetic energy within a system. With ideas like imperfection, there is no objectivity involved at all, it's all subjective. A thing is not perfect or imperfect, it simply IS. The ideas of perfection and imperfection are overlayed by us based upon our own value judgments and preconceptions.

This is why I said that the Divine is incapable of creating anything imperfect; because It is equally incapable of creating anything perfect. The Divine simply creates and leaves the value judgments to us, because in order to make value judgments a limited point of view is required. That which is Unlimited cannot have, in and of Itself, the limited point of view necessary to create the ideas of perfection and imperfection, because the Unlimited cannot be limited. So, if anything, it is the idea that God creates anything inherently imperfect that is the limiting idea, no the other way around.

Hopefully this makes more sense now.

CS

Agreed. I got there by different logic but the result is the same. My solution was to see creation as the definition of perfection. Wraps it all up with a nice bow.

Seems many need to suffer self inflicted or not. Awaiting guidance for some can be a life time, while other bask in the idea of imperfection since perfection is loaded with acid. Our road map was given at birth.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by n2mec

Seems many need to suffer self inflicted or not. Awaiting guidance for some can be a life time, while other bask in the idea of imperfection since perfection is loaded with acid. Our road map was given at birth.

I kind of believe it was given even before we were born.

[mickiel]

The pathology of God on suffering; I think he thinks in the long run, the suffering will benefit us all later.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by mickiel

The pathology of God on suffering; I think he thinks in the long run, the suffering will benefit us all later.

And I can't wait to see and understand WHY he thinks that?

[athribiristan]

Originally Posted by mickiel

And I can't wait to see and understand WHY he thinks that?

Or we could just choose not to suffer. Personally I like that better.