What is Nothing?

Originally Posted by r6r6r

If we live in a finite Universe of occupied space i.e. fermions, bosons, gravity and any combination thereof, then the only possibility, is that there exists macro-micro infinite non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe.

This is a rationally logical and common sense conclusion, yet over last 8 years, very few I've spoken to, appear to be able to grasp this concept / scenario.

Non-occupied space;
..1) truely non-occupied space beyond our finite Universe.

...2) superficially appearing, non-occupied space, ex the space between two cars, two homes, two people two planets superficially appears empty but is filled with air molecules, EM-Radiation, neutrinos, more sub-atomic particles.

r6

That's really interesting, my curious ears pricked up when I read this, considering today I said to someone love is probably just a space.

[Sepher]

Related to your question about can there be nothing. I feel yes. Many people only know of the physical dimension and the astral heaven with its many levels but there are many heavens or spiritual planes. The lower spiritual planes have the opposite of nothing: matter, energy, time and space. But the higher levels of heaven are composed of pure spirit which has no matter.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by silent whisper

That's really interesting, my curious ears pricked up when I read this, considering today I said to someone love is probably just a space.

-Good to hear. Of course the key word is "IF". People throw around the word infinite so often in regards to a occupied space Universe.

I don' think they realize the implications of what their saying. Macro or micro infinite is not a associated with a size.

Infinity is beyond size--- size infers a finite limit and similarly eternity is beyond a finite / limited time.

Time is only eternal in that energy / physical cannot never be created nor destroyed so our finite occupied space Universe exists eternally.

The finite total value of our finite Universe is also eternal, even tho the number of parts that compose our finite Universe, may increase and decrease, the total energetic / physical value is an eternal existent value.

I believe this has to do with integrity. Integrity of our finite occupied space Universe, that is eternally embraced by the macro-micro infinite, non-occupied space, that is eternally existent beyond our finite Universe of occupied space.

The non-occuioed embraces but does not contain or restrain our finite Universe of occupied space.

Whereas, gravity--- also occupies space --- embraces and contains and some restraints on our finite Universe of occupied space

This leads into understanding, that, mass-attraction( gravity ) is a pulling-IN force or phenomena, that results in pushing-out phenomena ex. the womb muscles contract and as a result the fetus is pushed out.

There is only one kind of signal sent from brain to muscles and when it is on /activated, it tells muscles to contract. When it stops signaling, the muscles inherently return to the relaxed state / position.

Gravity( mass-attraction ) = cosmic integral essence.

My scenario to those who believe gravity is resultant of pushing-in forces / phenomena, is this, IF we live in a finite Universe of occupied space, then there is no thing(s) outside to be pushing-in, to keep Universe's from becoming eternally dispersed ergo a non-integral entity.

Mass-attractive( contractive-IN ) gravity is the ultra-micro ergo ultra weak force, that cummulatively is the most powerful and essential force that maintains the integrity of Universe. imho

Pulling-IN is the path of least resistance ex. over the years Ive seen various strong men pulling a boxcar of a train with there arms or even there teeth towards thereself.

Never have I seen a strong man pushing a train away from themselves.

Japaneses manual hand saws are lightweight and designed to cut on the pull stroke, not the push stroke of the convential hand saw most are famililar with.

The dude who helped Steve Jobs invent the mouse, also invented signs public bathrooms that say occupied when someone latches door from inside.

We can not get outsider of our finite Universe of occupied space. However, oour finite Universe of occupied space, may expand and occupy some of the macro-micro infinite non-occupied space.

The question then becomes, how can Universe expand or contract without violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics--- energy / physical cannot be created nor destroyed ---.

That enters into a little bit more complicated set of scenarios. imho.

r6

[Visitor]

The human mind cannot make sense of 'nothing'.
Not perceivable by mind (fact or theory).
Anything unreal does not exist.

Originally Posted by Sybilline

Can nothing even exist? Or can it only ever exist in the mind, or in theory/philosophy?

No.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by Visitor

The human mind cannot make sense of 'nothing'.
Not perceivable by mind (fact or theory).Anything unreal does not exist.
No.

Absolute nothingness--- aka non-occupied space ---makes rationally logical and common sense, in relationship to a finite occupied space. The two are complementaries.

( = complementary of convex and concave.

Existence of only non-occupied space does not makes sense, because to think of it inherentle means there exists the relativity of a somethingness( occupied space ) that does the thinking.

What is truly beyond grasp-ability is eternity of the occupied space, and the infinity of non-occupied space.

It takes a lot of mind emphasis to get our heads around the currently known size of Universe, much less ideas of non-graspable infinite.

Comprehending an infinite spatial Universe becomes a laughble joke at that point. imho

The Universe is said to be expanding, if so, what do you think it is expanding into, i.e. what to you think is outside our finite Universe.

This is fairly simple logical conclusions to follow. imho.

Read those big bang theories and they all lead to same conclusion, that, what is beyond our finite Universe is non-occupied space. Simple, rational conclusion, not complex. imho

r6

[Visitor]

Hello r6r6r

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Absolute nothingness--- aka non-occupied space ---makes rationally logical and common sense, in relationship to a finite occupied space. The two are complementaries.....
Read those big bang theories and they all lead to same conclusion, that, what is beyond our finite Universe is non-occupied space. Simple, rational conclusion, not complex. imho ... r6

Interesting post about space.

To clarify my position,

Originally Posted by Visitor
The human mind cannot make sense of 'nothing'.
Not perceivable by mind (fact or theory). Anything unreal does not exist ...

I was not referring to space.

Non-occupied space may seem to our human senses as nothing. The word space, to the human mind, refers to dimensions and time. And because of this, non-occupied space becomes empty space - not even a photon.

The problem is that our language cannot explain adequately outside our four dimensions of 3D space and time. Only the language of mathematics can ponder beyond that, and in that pondering we discover other dimensions.

From this, they realized that certain dimensions can only exist (to our mind) when they are combined to each other. A simple example is space (length, width, breadth) cannot exist without the dimension of time - for it takes time to go from one point to another.

The word eternity, so often thought as being endless space ---there is that word again, space.... is also misunderstood as endless time.

Now consider eternity as timeless.

To the mind, 'now' does not exist. How could it, since even an impulse to bridge a synapse, takes time. (incidentally, the human nervous system cannot respond to impulses above 2-3 kHz, but only to harmonics thereof).

Spiritual matters, often arises from those indescribable dimensions. These forums hold a vast amount of language that points to the indescribable.

The human mind is limited to making sense of real 'nothing', where space and time (facts), and all other dimensions or thought (theory), do not exist.

Hope this has explained my position a bit better. I am sorry if my previous post had mislead you r6r6r. Lol.

Nothing is just a word, there is no such concept that exists. Even complete darkness is something.....it's darkness.

it's just a word used to describe what appears to have no substance or activity, but in reality there is always something

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by each1teach1

Nothing is just a word, there is no such concept that exists. Even complete darkness is something.....it's darkness.

it's just a word used to describe what appears to have no substance or activity, but in reality there is always something

why? and how do you know?

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

why? and how do you know?

Because nothingess is subjective to your perception. It's not material, it exists only as an idea in our imagination...and everyone's idea is different. It's only manifestation is the word "nothing"

What I meant in the first post was that no such concept exists in material form. I know this because it would make no sense in that form.
Empty space is not nothing because it's empty space. It's just a word used to describe.

Interesting. "Nothing" is something that cannot be seen, touched or sensed. But that doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Oxygen cant be sensed but still its very clear existence. Black isnt "nothing" either, black is a color!