Bahagavad Gita -- Chapter 6

Originally Posted by peteyzen

The greatest danger to happiness is EGO.

Yes I agree. It only out of ego that atheists refuse to acknowledge God, because of their pride. If a person can not bow down to God then they can not bow down to anyone.

Of course an atheist may display some good qualities due to piety in a previous life, but know that if they act according to the conclusion of their philosophy then they are on the road to degradation and the opposite applies for a theist.

In Sanskrit the word for ego is ahankara, which really means false ego. The word ego means I. Our real ego is thinking I am the soul I am a servant of God. False ego is think I am this body, I the supreme enjoyer. So the atheists a clearly more under the sway of the false-ego.

verse 4

http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/gita/gita6.htm

A person is said to have attained yogic perfection when there is no desire for sensual pleasures, or attachment to the fruits of work, and has renounced all personal selfish motives.

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-06-04.html

When one is not addicted to desire for sense gratification nor in fruitive activities, renouncing all material desires; then only it is declared that one is elevated to the science of uniting the individual consciousness with the Ultimate Consciousness.

http://www.asitis.com/6/

A person is said to be have attained to yoga when, having renounced all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification nor engages in fruitive activities.

Questions For All:
How are you still attached to the fruits of your work?

What material desires do find operating in yourself?

Originally Posted by Topology

Questions For All:
How are you still attached to the fruits of your work?

What material desires do find operating in yourself?

The fears I find crossing my mind these days are of not being stable financially. Out of that fear I seek a higher paying job and stress and worry every time I spend money. Thus I am in school to leverage my intellect. I desire a sufficient cash-flow to support the lifestyle my family is living. I'm willing to live a more restricted life-style, but my wife is not. Perhaps I should be calling it a wife-style? So my motive is tainted from fear. But there is a part of me that truly enjoys the study of computer science, so my motive is not completely imbalanced.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

Yes I agree. It only out of ego that atheists refuse to acknowledge God, because of their pride. If a person can not bow down to God then they can not bow down to anyone.

Of course an atheist may display some good qualities due to piety in a previous life, but know that if they act according to the conclusion of their philosophy then they are on the road to degradation and the opposite applies for a theist.

In Sanskrit the word for ego is ahankara, which really means false ego. The word ego means I. Our real ego is thinking I am the soul I am a servant of God. False ego is think I am this body, I the supreme enjoyer. So the atheists a clearly more under the sway of the false-ego.

Why is bowing down required? And by the way you interact with others, you're wanting them to bow down to you, not God.

These "atheists" you talk about, they don't really exist except in your mind. When I look at the world, I do not see atheists and theists. I see people making all sorts of noises. Some people make noises claiming to be atheists, some people make noises claiming to be theists. Both sets of people do righteous and vile actions, so there's no correlation between what people say and what people do. Pretend all you want to be different or superior, but we're all just people, we're all in the same boat and its a shame that most of us can't see it that way.

kia ved ka urdu tarjuma poora mil jai ga ,bhagwat geeta ka to mil jata ha or yujerver ka bhi but baqi ved ka nahi milta ,is liyea koi help ker sakta ha,

Originally Posted by Topology

Why is bowing down required? And by the way you interact with others, you're wanting them to bow down to you, not God.

Bowing down doesn't have to taken literally, I mean it in the sense of being humble / free of "ego". In relation to the Deity and the Guru this can be taken literally.
I don't know what is the basis of your criticism. I haven't claimed to be any kind of independent authority. I want people to bow down to the Vedas, Krishna and the I-Ching. Nothing I have said is based on my own speculations everything is based on the Vedas.

Originally Posted by Topology

These "atheists" you talk about, they don't really exist except in your mind. When I look at the world, I do not see atheists and theists. I see people making all sorts of noises. Some people make noises claiming to be atheists, some people make noises claiming to be theists. Both sets of people do righteous and vile actions, so there's no correlation between what people say and what people do. Pretend all you want to be different or superior, but we're all just people, we're all in the same boat and its a shame that most of us can't see it that way.

In the Ch 16 of the Gita entitled "Divine and Demoniac Nature", Krishna gives us knowledge by which we can discriminate. More for discriminating within our own selves, but also for others.
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor — these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature." Bg 16.1
Later he describes the demoniac as
"They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust." Bg 16.8

"They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus until the end of life their anxiety is immeasurable. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of desires and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.

The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance." Bg 16.11-15

The neophyte devotee thinks that he is the only devotee everyone else is in illusion, therefore he does not preach.
The medium level devotee discriminates between the devotees, the innocent and the demons. He makes friends with devotees, preaches to the innocent and avoids the demons.
The top level devotee see that everyone is a devotee except for me and therefore feels too fallen to preach.
The position of the top level devotee should not be artificially imitated, even top level devotees sometimes come to the medium level to preach out of compassion.

While many so called theists may be more influenced by the demoniac nature I can't see how any atheists can claim to more influenced by the divine nature. In our society practically everyone is predominated by the demoniac nature perhaps that is why you only see one class of people.

Originally Posted by Topology

Questions For All:
How are you still attached to the fruits of your work?

What material desires do find operating in yourself?

I follow the advice of the I-Ching on how I should use the fruits of my labor. Therefore I am not on the mental platform in that regard. Attachment means we follow our mental speculation about how to do things rather than following higher authority.

Naturally I am not free from material desires, since while we are embodied there will always be some desires. When we follow authority on how to handle those desires, then they needn't be stumbling blocks on the path.

How to balance these things practically really requires Higher Guidance.

Originally Posted by Topology

Wife-style

Originally Posted by I-Ching

Nothing I have said is based on my own speculations everything is based on the Vedas.

When did you decide the Vedas were the truth?

How did you come to that decision?

Originally Posted by I-Ching

The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance." Bg 16.11-15

Being an atheist doesn't make someone demonic. Many atheist are Secular Humanists and would never participate in the thought form you are expressing as demonic.

That red part reminds me of how you view atheists.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

The neophyte devotee thinks that he is the only devotee everyone else is in illusion, therefore he does not preach.
The medium level devotee discriminates between the devotees, the innocent and the demons. He makes friends with devotees, preaches to the innocent and avoids the demons.
The top level devotee see that everyone is a devotee except for me and therefore feels too fallen to preach.
The position of the top level devotee should not be artificially imitated, even top level devotees sometimes come to the medium level to preach out of compassion.

The top level devotee isn't self-realized if he is feeling fallen. By this ranking, I place you at the neophyte level based on how you view and interact with others. You might think you're preaching, but what you do is more talking to yourself. Nobody is really listening to you because you have no interest in listening to anyone else. Hence you are not actually preaching.

Originally Posted by I-Ching

While many so called theists may be more influenced by the demoniac nature I can't see how any atheists can claim to more influenced by the divine nature. In our society practically everyone is predominated by the demoniac nature perhaps that is why you only see one class of people.

Does God care more about what name you call him or if you view him as a person or with a particular image, or does God care more about the condition of your heart and how you treat your fellow beings?

If it's the former, then God is not worth wasting time on. If it is the latter, then God speaks equally to the atheist and the theist. The theist hears God's whisperings and imagines a false image as the source. The atheist hears God's whisperings and sees it as their own internal morals or ethics. In both cases, God is heard. The conflict between the theist and atheist is simply an argument over false pictures over the source of compassion and love. Neither the atheist or the theist sees God as he is. Neither one is better or worse than the other.

Originally Posted by Topology

When did you decide the Vedas were the truth?

How did you come to that decision?

I decided over 10 years ago when I read the Gita. I had a strong desire to know the Truth, even if it meant I had to sacrifice some of my attachments. The philosophy it offers made more sense than anything else I had found so I decided to experiment with the process that it offered and I found that it worked.

Originally Posted by Topology

Being an atheist doesn't make someone demonic

Demon is a bit extreme, nothing is black and white in this world. I would say a demon is definitely an atheist but an atheist is not necessary a demon. The majority of people are innocent and are being misled by this bogus civilization. If you want to realize how demoniac this civilization is then just go a factory farm where the chickens never see the light of day and where cows are drowning in their own stool, or follow the food chain to the slaughter house. Go to any baby slaughter house where they abort child, about 40 million per year. Look at horrible factories where we are pumping so much pollution into the air and the water. Just wait till the oil starts running out, then the real face of our demoniac civilization will be revealed. Our society is simply based on the accumulation of wealth so that we can enjoy sense gratification and we are not too fussy about how we do it. Spirituality is nothing but a hobby at best. In the Vedic context demon simply means a materialist (not someone with horns and a tail) and this is certainly is a materialistic civilization.

Originally Posted by Topology

Many atheist are Secular Humanists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism) and would never participate in the thought form you are expressing as demonic.

Secular humanism simply means that you are free to concoct your own idea of morality. No doubt you concoctions just happen to suit the needs of your sense gratification. Just like every country justifies its economic wars with some kind concocted moral imperative. Any course on ethics will tell you that meat-eating is wrong, but does anyone care? No; because at the end of the day the atheists believes that there are no real consequences to his actions and therefore if it is convenient for him to be “moral” he will and when it is not he won’t. Besides at the end of day meat tastes good so who cares! What is an atheists idea of happiness? Sense gratification; usually in the form of money and women. A few may choose to try and do “good” according to their mental concoction of what they think is good, but rarely do their “good” works offer any permanent solution to the problems of this world. Simply by participating in this society you are inadvertently doing bad even if you are “good” member of that society. I’m sure many of the members of Nazi society were “good” people.

Originally Posted by Topology

The top level devotee isn't self-realized if he is feeling fallen.

The consciousness of a top-level devotee can’t be understood from our mundane perspective.

Originally Posted by Topology

Does God care more about what name you call him or if you view him as a person or with a particular image, or does God care more about the condition of your heart and how you treat your fellow beings?

God has many Names and He not to fussy about which one you use.

“Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.” Bg 9.30.
Here God is saying that even if we have some faults if we are trying to reform ourselves then we should be seen as saintly. An atheist of course has no such goals so this verse does not apply to him. An atheist must be a materialist in one form of another since that is his only platform of happiness.
Practically everyone on this planet thinks they are good person and what they are doing is justified. Even Hitler thought he was doing a good thing. Their concocted ideas of what is good are not going to help them at the time of death. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. Laws of material nature will not amend themselves to our concoctions. Until we accept God’s authority and follow His Will whatever we are doing is either bad or simply a waste of time.

[Internal Queries]

there are far more deity worshippers on planet Earth than there are atheists so to blame atheists for the all the unhappiness in the world is pretty damn rediculous.


looks like scripture justified scapegoating to me. nothing new or divine about that.