Who is Krishna ?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

My life has been the opposite. Had all my needs taken away. Not sure what that means.

Neither do I. I'm a believer that eventually we understand things, tho;
and God doesn't hate anyone.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I'm a believer that eventually we understand things, tho;

I think that may be the key. Maybe some people need various bad things in their lives, bad experiences and so on to learn some things. That does go along with the Hindu idea of karma. But maybe in a more nuanced way. Like it's not a punishment, it's to learn something. Like say you're a rich person who steals from poor persons. So really greedy and zero compassion or empathy for others. In the next life, they may be born very poor and needy. Not as a punishment. But so they learn what it's like to be poor and needy. To understand one may need the kindness of someone else to survive. Maybe they get what little they have stolen. Again to learn.

So someone can have a whole life of hardships and it doesn't mean they were less in tune with God than anyone else or less spiritual, it's just that is what they had as a karmic experience for one incarnation to grow in understanding.

There is this "religious" or philosophical idea one hears from time to time that everyone can be successful and get everything they want through various means. Programs, techniques, surrendering to God, etc. There's tons of groups, books, programs, organizations, and religions that push and sell this idea. They are pretty much saying it's our own fault in some way if we are not successful. I think sometimes in some ways this can be true. But then I think it is not always true.

I think if one's life plan or karma was to suffer a lot, nothing can change that. No technique, or belief, or religion, or method. But then one can learn from it and change their nature. Find a way to be at peace within it hopefully. I think everyone has very different lives and life experiences. So one cannot really judge another. But then I think one can't ignore suffering and just say, "oh well that's their karma." We need to have compassion and empathy and help all those we can. Helping someone in need can transform them as well. It shows them unselfish love in the highest sense.

[Miss Hepburn]

I believe your above post 42 should be a ''Recommended Read."

[kralaro]

> it's not a punishment, it's to learn something.

So Maisy if the learning is done the suffering is supposed to end immediately?

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by kralaro

> it's not a punishment, it's to learn something.

So Maisy if the learning is done the suffering is supposed to end immediately?

Suffering has a lot of different sources. Like I could be thinking about something bad said about me by a co-worker a week ago while a robber breaks into my house while a tornado is forming a mile away.

I could end the first one by learning to not focus my attention on the past, the second one well I could have had a big dog to prevent that, the last one I have no control over. I think the "karmic" lessons are usually situational. Like our health problems, relationship problems, money problems etc. We are usually involved with other people in complex ways. The people we are involved with or close to is also probably karma related. Like our close friends, close relationships, people we work with for many many years.

These do end eventually as far as this world as we all pass on. But I think many karmic type things are for a lifetime. Our health struggles for example. Our family members. I think a lot of karma is experience based. So we are set up to experience a lot of things to grow in understanding and self awareness and stuff like that. But while most of it is a lifetime of experience, I think some may be things we can free ourselves from. Like say for example we were greedy many years and learned over time to not be greedy and in fact become very giving. That means we learned our karmic lesson about greed and so won't need those karmic experiences in the next life. So in that sense we have ended any suffering needed to learn to not be greedy so in the next life we eliminated that kind of suffering.

Seems like the learning and understanding is also related to the suffering so say somebody is born with a lot of anxiety as they focus on negative fear based thinking a lot. They can learn to not do that and that would end the anxiety and so end that suffering. That's like a self caused suffering. But then one be born with mental illness and have to deal with that their whole lives for karmic experience reasons.

I don't think we can ever know the reasons for things either. Like one person may choose a life with health problems because they had no compassion or empathy for those people in past lives. But then another person may choose health problems in a set up with another soul so the other soul can learn compassion. Then somebody else may choose a body with health problems to force them to become more inward. I think our lessons are unique to us.

[Podshell]

There is stuff relating to this and vegetarianism in the Vedas,if we indulge in meat we could end up with animal bodies and be eaten ourselves.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by kralaro

... if the learning is done the suffering is supposed to end immediately?

This is a very good question, imo.
Somewhere in the last week on the Forum I told a true story regarding things like this...
I'll make it short:
Gary Renard , author of "The Disappearance of the Universe"...had to go to a different movie than he wanted ...
he was complaining a lot...
so his Guides, (that he was VERY in touch with) ,explained to him, IF he went to the original movie
he would have gotten out at a diff time...- gotten into an accident that would have placed him in the hospital for a LONG time...
for him to learn ''whatever''..BUT, he has learned that lesson!!
...so no need to go to the hospital ...THUS, his original movie was ''sold out''.

So you can surmise what you will.
I would say from MY exp, if you have learned something - you move on
to different lessons ...we are always moving on, moving on with diff things to learn.
My comical and cynical side talks to God.."OH great, now what?''...But,
'He' knows my humor.
(I would never say this on the Non-duality Section . LOL)

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

peteyzen, you know I luv ya.

But I have different take: I found, esp, when I became a Charismatic Christian(!)...I needed to do NO work at all.
But, instead, do nothing except know that my heavenly Father would 'take care of it'. :

I love you too Miss Hepburn. And having a different opinion to mine is quite correct, we can only speak from our own experience, and my explanation was from mine.
We all have different karma, so our experiences are different. I think a lovely person like you has earned some beautiful karma so maybe thats why it works that way for you, and more questionable souls like me have had to work differently for our grace lol.

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by Podshell

There is stuff relating to this and vegetarianism in the Vedas,if we indulge in meat we could end up with animal bodies and be eaten ourselves.

Hi Podshell, I have heard and read these arguments about coming back as animals in a different life. Personally (and this is just my opinion) I think that they stem from a mis understanding of a passage in the vedas, which actually said, you will come back and life a life like an animal. The reason I believe this is because, the whole purpose of existence here is an evolution of the soul, we grow through different soul groups as we pass through lives until we reach a human soul. Now, in a human soul for the first time, we have the opportunity to break out of the circle of life and death and re birth. But we are also open to karma for the first time as well. Karma is exact, you get back what your intention creates. This is how we develop. So if someone did something awful in this life, coming back in the next life as an animal, would not allow them to experience it on the same level of consciouness, it would not be the same. But thats just my belief and I could be wrong.

[kralaro]

> My comical and cynical side talks to God.."OH great, now what?''...But,
> 'He' knows my humor.
> (I would never say this on the Non-duality Section . LOL)

:) Miss Hepburn, i had shared a story here that someone used to daily visit Lord Shiva's temple to abuse him for the seemingly misfortunes in the world even to the point of crossing a flood to visit him to which Lord appeared in front of him and said you're my true devotee, ask for a boon!