How do I stabilize nothingness to enter pure awareness?

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Neti neti

"All you can say is: ‘I am not this, I am not that’." page 9 from Nisargadatta's book "I am That."

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I was surprised...
.... put in there.

Haha yeah true. I also identify in the middle of my head somewhere as a consciousness. but much more ineffable type of consciousness. That is capable of infinite senses and none. Beyond all experience.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I coulden't make any sense of the book.

It's not really 'true', what's in that book, but the author is very insightful, and even when there's direct contact with our own essential nature, there's no real conclusion to 'what I am', so the sayings like 'awareness is what you really are' are kinda figurative and give an impression that someone really knows, when they don't really know.

At the point I'll just call 'direct contact', it can be recognised, 'that is my real nature', and I will just describe that nature as the infinite outpouring of purity and love. It's there, but it's as if it's behind you. There is certainty to it upon contact, and it's kinda like, 'of course, I knew that'... but no one really knows, so no one can explain it. It just is, as it is, and that's the way it is.

People want to explain it so they say 'I am awareness' and similar things, and other people think 'that's the answer', but making direct contact doesn't answer anything. It's more like you infer that it's completely mysterious, and even though it's, 'of course,' there is no 'what' and there is no 'why'. There is just 'of course this is the way it is'.

It's something that can't be resolved and settled in the mind like an answer, but it operates in another way. It's on a level of purity and bliss and the outpouring itself is ecstasy, and rather than 'I am awareness' or some such thing, the certainty is something along the lines of, 'everything is seen with the utmost purity of love'.

It's just my own interpretation, but when Nisargadatta says 'I am That', I infer that he means the great outpouring that I mentioned. However, one can't really make a truth statement that pertains to 'what I am'. It's more subjective in the undefined sense of 'this is my true nature'.

I think there are two primary approaches: One which Ramana calls the 'direct approach', and another which I call the purification. I think everyone should work on the purification regardless of them having made 'direct contact' or not. I've also heard this framed in a similar way and called 'alignment'. The direct approach is Ramana's inquiry into 'who am I', and there's endless commentary on the internet about that as you can imagine.

The direct contact, however, is more like you, just as you are now. It's something to do with the truth that you don't exist in the past and you don't exist in the future. Now is the moment that you actually exist (just as you are). The direct contact occurs in that immediacy, suddenly, instantly, as if by surprise, for no reason, as if you simply notice, and are like, 'oh that'. If there is a way to bring that about, I have no idea what it is or how it's done.

Personally, I advocate mostly the purification approach, overcoming the sorrows, regrets, guilt, grudges and traumas of the past, coming to peace with it all, and clearing out some of the emotive blocks and shame and stuff so that the aforementioned outpouring of love can rise up from the depths in you and begin to flow. I think if you hold to be true, just in faith, that all things are seen with the utmost purity of love - being open to that as a possibility is a positive way to go...

Unfortunately I don't have a clue what 'nothingness' and 'pure awareness' are, so can't do the topic justice, but there's me two bobs for what it's worth.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's not really 'true', what's in that book, ...
There are two primary approaches ....
Unfortunately I don't have a clue what 'nothingness' and 'pure awareness' are, so can't do the topic justice,
but there's me two bobs for what it's worth.

HOW can you say that "I Am That'' - Nisargadatta's book is not true?

Then, type SO much afterwards, only to admit at the end, ''I don't have a clue''.

What do you even know about approaches?

This confuses people.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's not really 'true'...
... bobs for what it's worth.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

I have achieved/experienced that outpouring of love many times that is ineffable and unlocalised, as I have purified many countless of times. but the fact that it can be achieved and then lost, does not bode well with me. I am looking for something consistent always present and not dualistic like that. not requiring eternal endless purification and then just to lose it again still. Not looking for a temporary experience.

I am indeed looking for an eternal realisation that is right here and right now. And this has to be it aswell. Everything has to already be it. And yet I cannot denie that what that must then be... is the duality of everything as it is here and now everything dualistic. And I don't like that. So I thought, maybe awareness cannot get there. Maybe awareness is dualistic unto itself. self and other. vibrational. Relative. energetic.

But then again maybe duality and relativity and energy is the absolute. Maybe relative and absolute are two sides of the same coin. Maybe this relativity that seems to appear here and now, is also already the absolute. No matter how dualistic it is. I cannot denie that its uniqueness is absolute. Tho dualistic, evermore new and new variety of duality, here and now always already... This is as close I can get to the absolute. The absolute uniqueness of every new here and now as all equally infinitely unique and never before experienced exactly as like unto it. evermore unique. Including the uniqueness in the way all similarities are being experienced. evermore absolutely unique. The forever never-before-experienced-ness of everything always already here and now evermore.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Not looking for a temporary experience.I am indeed looking for an eternal realisation that is right here and right now.

Yep. What's true is different to what's said to what's said, so something like 'it just is' implies complete subjectivity that can't be formulated as an answer. A very insightful fellow like Nisargadatta talks about the thing in the way I like best so I like the book very much, but what I infer from 'I am That' relates to my own subjectivity and not to a fact which we can site as 'the answer'.

From that subjective position, I can say the 'the outpouring' (as I call it) is what everything we experience is not, and even though the direct contact does impress me with 'that is my own nature', I am without that as an identity, so say 'I'm not the not'. It's empty. I don't know what it is, where it comes from or why it's here. I just happens to be this way.

If I had to say a 'how', I probably go with the Ramama approach of always returning the attention to the self, relentlessly, persistently... there might be more to it and I'd go ahead and read up on it a bit, but Ramana's way makes sense to me.

There's people who understand all this much better that I do. You probably grok it better than me as well, so I'm just, you know, putting it out there for what it's worth. I can't help in any way or anything, not that I'd want to anyway even if did ask for and consent to that, but of course I hope what I do and say is harmless and beneficial.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

HOW can you say that "I Am That'' - Nisargadatta's book is not true?
...

from chapter #54, the 4th question on that page:

Q: My body influences me deeply. In more than one way my body is my destiny. My character, my moods, the nature of my reactions, my desires and fears -- inborn or acquired -- they are all based on the body. A little alcohol, some drug or other and all changes. Until the drug wears off I become another man.

Niz: All this happens because you think yourself to be the body. Realise your real self and even drugs will have no power over you.

This explains, I believe, Niz' longevity in spite of his smoking.

[AngelBlue]

For me it took a terrible Emotional trauma. Then I experienced "nothingness".
When I look back it was an amazing experience. I felt just that...
Nothing !! I could not feel my own body . I had no thought pattern . I did not eat. I lost 2 dress sizes in a week .
The solitude of feeling nothing was a wonderment in itself .
I am so happy that I experienced this even though it was traumatic because it taught me the "states" that we can achieve and what the mind/ body / soul is capable of , and that in itself is teachings of the spiritual realms and things beyond this "life".
HOWEVER ....
Because we DO have to live a human "existence" it would NOT be feasible to live this life with "Nothingness" on a daily basis or long term.
As Lovely as it is, it is not conjusive to our reason for being here on this earth at this moment in time.
We need ""SOMETHING "" ......

[Native spirit]

What Angel Blue said is correct we have to live a Human existence as much as you may not want to you are Human so living in a world of Nothingness is not feasible


Namaste

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by AngelBlue

... it is not conjusive to our reason for being here on this earth at this moment in time.
We need ""SOMETHING "" ......

I'm always really curious as to our human reason for being here on this earth as humans at this moment in time. Do you perhaps happen to maybe know what the reason is?