Hi! I am a Chinese Buddhist.

Hola Icy Su and Welcome!

I have enjoyed your posts. For me I have found that a belief/practice system of an integration of aspects of Christology, Taoism, and Buddhism resonates best for me.

Namaste,

Bodhi

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

No need to worry my friend! Perhaps you want to stick to your topic being Buddhism. But the little time I have been here I have noticed people are pretty easy going. I imagine God like is to. My opinion is do what makes you happy with your thread! Even people who are not Buddhist will enjoy reading it. Why not? Have fun!

Absolutely running I am easy going ...

In regards to my ignored question which simply refers to one's self awareness had through the process of meditation leaves me slightly baffled . All is good however as the saying goes ..


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Absolutely running I am easy going ...

In regards to my ignored question which simply refers to one's self awareness had through the process of meditation leaves me slightly baffled . All is good however as the saying goes ..


x daz x

Hi God-Like,

I read your posts again and sorry for misunderstanding. Sometimes people would debate on their different beliefs, which I would absolutely avoid. Now I understand it is a real question of you, then I can share some thoughts.

It is actually the question of Buddhism --- Who we are? Where are we from? and where are we going? These are what Buddhism meant to answer.

However, these are also questions Buddhists spend life time to seek answers. Only those who have achieved a really high level can confidently answer these questions.

Buddhism is not like school teaching, where you find the answers in books and everything is clear. It is something you must practice and prove it by yourself. It's like climbing a mountain. You have to personally climb up and then you will know what the view up there is like. At my level, I really cannot answer those questions yet.

But God-Like, it is great that you do think about these questions. Most of people never think about them in their life time. Raising the question is the first step toward the answer.

Hence here comes the question -- how to know the answers? In your case, you are thinking about the question when you meditate. Congratulations! This is actually what Zen Buddhists do -- they practice Buddhism when they meditate, during which they think about a question -- Who is meditating? I actually should not say "think", as thinking is normal irregular mind activities of human brain, while what Zen Buddhists do is very different.

But I really do not want to introduce Zen Buddhism here. On one hand, I do not practice it, and hence not qualified to explain... One the other hand, Zen Buddhism is a bit special. Only those who had developed their wisdom to a great level in their past lives can successfully practice it and be enlightened. This is the reason why there are very few Zen Buddhists in history who were truly enlightened. For normal people, the Zen methodology is far too hard.

To sum up, as I do not practice Zen Buddhism at all, I do not even think about the question of Who I am, or in your words, who the self is. Pure Land Buddhism is a completely different methodology. But eventually, it will lead the practitioners to the wisdom too.

One thing I would like to draw your attention to is that, too much philosophical thinking sometimes may confuse yourself even more, whilst you may never get an answer.

Best,
Icy

Originally Posted by BodhiChan

Hola Icy Su and Welcome!

I have enjoyed your posts. For me I have found that a belief/practice system of an integration of aspects of Christology, Taoism, and Buddhism resonates best for me.

Namaste,

Bodhi

Thanks Bodhi! It's great that you made the efforts to learn the various religions. I hope you'll find your own way soon.

Best,
Icy

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by icy_su

I read your posts again and sorry for misunderstanding. Sometimes people would debate on their different beliefs, which I would absolutely avoid. Now I understand it is a real question of you, then I can share some thoughts.

It is actually the question of Buddhism --- Who we are? Where are we from? and where are we going? These are what Buddhism meant to answer.

However, these are also questions Buddhists spend life time to seek answers. Only those who have achieved a really high level can confidently answer these questions.

Buddhism is not like school teaching, where you find the answers in books and everything is clear. It is something you must practice and prove it by yourself. It's like climbing a mountain. You have to personally climb up and then you will know what the view up there is like. At my level, I really cannot answer those questions yet.

Hi Icy .. Thanks for your reply and getting back to me .

When you say at your level you cannot answer my question as such, well what I am interested in is how one can answer what they do at a particular level . My understanding and realization comes from an awareness of self . What else is there other than self or God or whatever words suits? Meditation bridges the gap between one’s lack of awareness of self and one’s awareness of self .

Originally Posted by icy_su

But God-Like, it is great that you do think about these questions. Most of people never think about them in their life time. Raising the question is the first step toward the answer.

Hence here comes the question -- how to know the answers? In your case, you are thinking about the question when you meditate. Congratulations! This is actually what Zen Buddhists do -- they practice Buddhism when they meditate, during which they think about a question -- Who is meditating? I actually should not say "think", as thinking is normal irregular mind activities of human brain, while what Zen Buddhists do is very different.

I had the intial enquiry (self enquiry) prior to meditating 20 years ago .. I don’t have the question in mind for myself, I don’t think about anything self related for myself, My thoughts are directed to others and in this particular case to you .

Originally Posted by icy_su

To sum up, as I do not practice Zen Buddhism at all, I do not even think about the question of Who I am, or in your words, who the self is. Pure Land Buddhism is a completely different methodology. But eventually, it will lead the practitioners to the wisdom too.

Thats fine that you don’t self enquire, meditation is meditation, there seems so many variants of it but one realizes whether it be zen meditation or whatever the mind leads you alll to the same point no matter how one dresses it up .

Originally Posted by icy_su

One thing I would like to draw your attention to is that, too much philosophical thinking sometimes may confuse yourself even more, whilst you may never get an answer.

I agree too much thinking can bring about confusion and the realization lies beyond thinking . I have said in another thread there are many levels to thinking .. Many can try and think there way to self and one can know self and remain in thought . There is a difference .

x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Icy .. Thanks for your reply and getting back to me .

When you say at your level you cannot answer my question as such, well what I am interested in is how one can answer what they do at a particular level . My understanding and realization comes from an awareness of self . What else is there other than self or God or whatever words suits? Meditation bridges the gap between one’s lack of awareness of self and one’s awareness of self .



I had the intial enquiry (self enquiry) prior to meditating 20 years ago .. I don’t have the question in mind for myself, I don’t think about anything self related for myself, My thoughts are directed to others and in this particular case to you .




Thats fine that you don’t self enquire, meditation is meditation, there seems so many variants of it but one realizes whether it be zen meditation or whatever the mind leads you alll to the same point no matter how one dresses it up .



I agree too much thinking can bring about confusion and the realization lies beyond thinking . I have said in another thread there are many levels to thinking .. Many can try and think there way to self and one can know self and remain in thought . There is a difference .

x dazzle x

Can't guess what time zone you are in...

Here is the problem -- your words sound like tongue twister to me... I do not quite get your idea~~

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by icy_su

Can't guess what time zone you are in...

Here is the problem -- your words sound like tongue twister to me... I do not quite get your idea~~

At times thats the way the cookie crumbles I am afraid Icy .

I am however happy to break it down for you some more .. My thoughts that is and not the cookie .

There are many levels/strains to one’s meditation as there are to ones thoughts . At present you don’t seem to have made a connection by what you have said regarding self awareness and medition .

You have said you are not able to answer particular questions of mine and these are also questions Buddhists spend life time to seek answers. Only those who have achieved a really high level can confidently answer these questions.

I put to you ‘I am interested in how one can answer what they do at a particular level’ ..

In regards to these zen master buddhists that are at such levels do you reckon that these such individuals have an awareness of self or what they are . Therefore would you say that their line of enquiry and metitation has led them to this point .


x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

At times thats the way the cookie crumbles I am afraid Icy .

I am however happy to break it down for you some more .. My thoughts that is and not the cookie .

There are many levels/strains to one’s meditation as there are to ones thoughts . At present you don’t seem to have made a connection by what you have said regarding self awareness and medition .

You have said you are not able to answer particular questions of mine and these are also questions Buddhists spend life time to seek answers. Only those who have achieved a really high level can confidently answer these questions.

I put to you ‘I am interested in how one can answer what they do at a particular level’ ..

In regards to these zen master buddhists that are at such levels do you reckon that these such individuals have an awareness of self or what they are . Therefore would you say that their line of enquiry and metitation has led them to this point .


x dazzle x

Thanks for clarification God-Like.

It seems that we have two very different thinking models. On my way of meditation, I become less and less bothered by questions and thoughts. I certainly do not enquire about the concept of self-awareness. When I meditate, it's very quiet and peaceful -- there's no thoughts except for Buddha's name.

At my level, I can tell you how to clear the mind. I am still on this level, and will be on this level for a certain period of time.

I do not know any Zen master. In history, there were a few Zen masters who demonstrated amazing capabilities. I guess they do know the answers. But the thing is that, true Buddhism masters never talk about their Awareness.
Even they do talk, you cannot truly understand unless you achieve that level by yourself.

There's a poem written by a Zen master, decribing the awareness he obtained. The poem reads, (apology for the silly translation in advance)

I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life never live or die;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life never change;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life is all complete and perfect;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life can generate everything.

Apology for the silly translation twice...

but you see, what can you learn from this poem??? what is the true spirit of life?

I am reluctant to think about these questions. Buddha says it's hard to guide people to Buddhism...it's really hard...

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by icy_su

Thanks for clarification God-Like.

.

No probs Ice .

Originally Posted by icy_su

I do not know any Zen master. In history, there were a few Zen masters who demonstrated amazing capabilities. I guess they do know the answers. But the thing is that, true Buddhism masters never talk about their Awareness. Even they do talk, you cannot truly understand unless you achieve that level by yourself.
.

I understand there are those that don’t speak about what is realized because it cannot really be explained within words and some don’t waste energy in doing so, some however communicate with the limitations of words in order to convey a glimpse of what can be attained ..

Like in this zen masters poem

I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life never live or die;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life never change;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life is all complete and perfect;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life can generate everything.

Well this particular zen master spoke of his realization did he not?? lol .

I understand the words in the way that they were written but in order for the zen master to realize what he has written he has had to evaluate what was realized in relation to the self or what it is that he ‘Is’ in order for him to express such words in the form of a poem .

This is what I mean when someone that has realized what they are can still entertain thoughts .

He has intellectually understood what he has realized in order to convey words within the poem .

Do you see?

x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

No probs Ice .



I understand there are those that don’t speak about what is realized because it cannot really be explained within words and some don’t waste energy in doing so, some however communicate with the limitations of words in order to convey a glimpse of what can be attained ..

Like in this zen masters poem

I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life never live or die;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life never change;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life is all complete and perfect;
I was unaware but now realized the true spirit of life can generate everything.

Well this particular zen master spoke of his realization did he not?? lol .

I understand the words in the way that they were written but in order for the zen master to realize what he has written he has had to evaluate what was realized in relation to the self or what it is that he ‘Is’ in order for him to express such words in the form of a poem .

This is what I mean when someone that has realized what they are can still entertain thoughts .

He has intellectually understood what he has realized in order to convey words within the poem .

Do you see?

x dazzle x

I am not going to compare who of us understand more about Zen Buddhism. It's a waste of time and energy. And I am not going into discussion on the Zen Buddhism again. It's also a waste of time and energy.

Buddhism never come from discussion, which is such a waste of time...

Best,
Icy