Are we separate or one?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by charly233

Yes I agree all of this is beyond what we can understand intellectually.

It is fun to make guesses based on our experiences and realizations.

I advise against trying to reason it out, because humans don't have the intellect for that. That's one of the reasons for which we are here now.

Making guesses is likely to be more detrimental than flipping a coin.

I believe that trusting any guru or any dogma is also detrimental, because you'll inherit their distorted views. From the many that "unveil you the truth", how would you know who's the one who knows the truth? You can't.

In my view, the best way is for you (I use "you" here in the impersonal sense) to turn inwards and tap your inner source of knowledge and guidance.

This is what I'm doing. That's why I just state my views, with no intention to convince anybody, nor to argue my views' validity. I know that I can't get rid of all my distortions, as they're inherently caused by my limiting beliefs and my current level of evolvement. I don't claim that I know the truth. I believe that truth is infinite, that learning continues ad infinitum.

Originally Posted by inavalan

"All is one" implies loss of identity. I don't subscribe to "all is one".

All is one implies an infinitely expanded identity…….

[Redchic12]

INAVALAN:

You state:…..That is the case with the ocean and the drop, the ocean and the wave, ... used for the purpose of convincing pupils, people of ideas that the speaker has, and which aren't truth, but just beliefs

Yes I can understand were you are coming from with this statement, it isnt a truth and it is only a belief. Same for me also. But for some, it is a belief.

And yes of course, any teacher/guru who is trying to CONVINCE others of their own ideas/beliefs is not acceptable and I totally agree with you.

However, when a person has asked me a question eg about God\us I have always started my answer with ………”well for me personally, the best way I can get my head around this topic is……..(then I would use the ocean analogy).” Plus I would also add that everyone must seek and find their own answers.

I feel it is totally appropriate to use it in the above context.

Perhaps the real issue is HOW you use the phrase and not the phrase itself that’s the problem. If we are not trying to convince or force the belief of the ocean then it’s a whole different ball game so to speak.

Hope this gives you a greater understanding of where I’ve been coming from.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

...

I think that a fundamental concept that has to be considered when talking about reality, God, and such is the

gestalt = a structure, arrangement, or pattern of physical, biological, or psychological phenomena so integrated as to constitute a functional unit with properties not derivable by summation of its parts.

The ocean analogies aren't about gestalts. The relation between an ocean and its waves, or its potential "drops", isn't like between a gestalt and its elements.

My understanding is that reality is consciousness, and that that is "structured" in gestalts. This is true for physical-reality, and for the wider-reality too.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by inavalan

and its elements.

My understanding is that reality is consciousness, and that that is "structured" in gestalts. This is true for physical-reality, and for the wider-reality too.

My understanding too. This 'thing' we call life is consciousness. It binds us, as individual aspects, to a collective existence which takes on manifold forms. This collective existence forms itself into groups or structures which are related to one another to, (for instance) produce new forms of consciousness and new experiences.

The more I ponder the more excited I get!!!!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by inavalan

"All is one" implies loss of identity. I don't subscribe to "all is one".

Darn, I can't rem where it is said ...but I am almost sure it was Krishna that said
you never lose who you are...as you realize oneness or merge with God, as it is said often...
find union or go Home...other ways it is said.

[Unseeking Seeker]

In my view, before we ask if we are separate or one, we must first recognise our constitution. Are we mind-body, soul (what is soul?), Self (what is Self)?

I’d say mind-body is a state of separateness, soul of interconnectedness and Self of oneness. As such, when identity drops away completely, the Self is revealed* (*it was always there but hidden or hijacked by identity). The Self is a luminous, pulsating light, complete in all aspects, constantly renewing itself within itself in time dissolved ineffable peace that transcends even bliss. So if we say one, one with who or what, since the Self alone is? It is this that is made in God’s image and though complete, I’d say operable creative freedom yet awaits ~ hence the one becomes polarised in duality to become enabled through learning.

So, we are, in my view, inseparable from God and yet individuated in His image at level of Self, interconnected with existence at soul level and separate at mind-body level.

[vortex]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I advise against trying to reason it out, because humans don't have the intellect for that.

as a channel i have been down that rabbet hole with them where with every answer leads to 5 more questions

but in saying that i have slipped in being one at times and if you Ty to reason it. the experience stops
like in every thing my perception of the situation is all way changing and evolving and very individual but connect in a way we will never comprehend

enjoy being human

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ReturningMoon

This makes me wonder if we really are separate or all is just one. What do you think?

One would have to realise what they are that is the individual and what you are that is not .

If one realises that there is only what you are, then there can be both individuality and not .


x daz x

[SmallVoice]

Originally Posted by ReturningMoon

Hi everyone. Something interesting I just pondered is we have two points of perspective. You have your ego and identity which creates a separation from all that is. You have another point of perspective where you are just a part of all that is.
This makes me wonder if we really are separate or all is just one. What do you think?

A cell is an individual organism, yet our entire body is made up of cells. The organism is one single being despite the fact that its body is made up of millions of individual organisms that all have their own specific forms, functions, and relationships. The same can be said for atoms and eco systems and galaxies and universes. The all are contained in the one.