Does there have to be any meaning or design to it all??

[r6r6]

Seemingly chaotic. even tho we live in a cause and effect Universe.

A home owner may look in their home's electric service panel and only see a chaotic mess with all those wires.

An electrician looks in same box in all makes sense.

Chaos is really just our minds abiity to integrate the incoming information, tho, to be fair, there is limit to how much information can be processed by a brain or computer within a given set time period.

I feel there exists an ultra-large set of interrelationships happening at an ultra-micro levels of Universe, that even if we could access it, it would be a finite set, that, is so much larger than can be processed. imho
at best we can map only a portion and extrapolate out possible scenarios of what can happen with a finite set of limits.

This presumes exists a finite set of cosmic laws/principles.

r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Design to it( Universe ) all( Universe )?
Universe has not purpose. Only humans apply a purpose.
Fuller states that humans have 4 primary purposes beyond that of other animals.
We do know that any design or natures coordinates are limited ex there exist only 5 possible regular/symmetrical polyhedra. Irrespective of the feasibility of multi-verses or what not, this finite limit we can establish via our access to metaphyscal-1, mind/intellect/concepts.

1) metaphysical-1 mind/intellect concepts ex concept of space is not an actual space,
-----------------------line-of-demarcation---------------
2) macro-infinite, non-occupied space( metaphysical-2 ) embraces our finite, occupied space UniVerse.
3) occupied space
....3a)fermions, bosons and any aggregate collection thereof,
....3b) gravity---attractive/contractive positive shaped(?)
.....3c) dark energy--repulsive/dissasociative negative shaped(?)

[organic born]

Originally Posted by ian77

organic born,life is a hypnotic dream.We once failed in a crucial test in the eternal order of progression.One day we will awake from this dream;we will regenerate the perfect immortal sexless physical body,and in so doing WE will become conscious AS Knowledge,Justice and LOVE.
Light Seeker,This is not an opinion,THIS THE TRUTH.THE TRUTH IS WITHIN US ALL.IF YOU SEEK THE TRUTH YOU WILL FIND IT.

I love a good paradox. Among my favorites is an old Zen related one what states that "as long as you're seeking you will not find it, and yet only the seekers are the ones who eventually awaken". Another Zen related ditty goes like this; The student asked his teacher "how long will it take me to become enlightened" the teacher replied that if he embraced the inner journey he estimated it would take around 10 years. The student then asked him "what if I give it everything that I have, study and study, work at it continuously with everything I got" The teacher looked at him with a frown on his face and replied "if you approach it that way it will take you 20 years."

And this second route is what I'm seeing so often among the spirituality of various flavors.

You're projecting everything into an imaginary future. The intention is honorable and high-minded, but in doing so you discount the present. You are placing all your eggs into some "future present" and pretending that this "now" doesn't count. Or perhaps worse, that "this now" is inhibiting that "later now".

What I started seeing when reading Harold's book was a man who was describing his life and his manor of perceiving. There may be some things that overlap with our own thoughts, and manor of identity, but for the most part the labels are his, the eventual outcome is how he'd perceive it within the stage of development that he was in at the time. When reading his book you bring "yourself" to the table. If some things find resonance with your own experience-of-self then take note of that, but there is no way an individual can overlay another's experience or this other's mental-reflexivity for their own.

Each moment is an expression of life. To down play this moment in favor of a imagined one in the future is to wander down the empty road of religious-like attachments. I read his book for what resonates with me currently, I'm not bothering to memorize any of it, nor do I plan on making his interpretation my life's goal. That would be silly. To awaken you need to awaken to the moment. In the moment the things around you become clearer, and the longer you spend in the moment the more you will witness with greater clarity. If you happen to end-up in some idealistic state over time then groovy, but one will never evolve naturally if they're wrapped in some ideal, putting the present on hold for the sake of an unrealized, and likely unrealizable future.

Sounds kinda droll doesn't it. The present is what we live in, while the future is so magical. And yet the future is the result of what we do with our present. If we don't tend to the now then our future will continually be a reflection of ones persistent longing. If we invest everything we got around some potential future outcome then the continuous longing that goes with such attachments will effectively hold us within the cage of such accompanying assumptions.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by organic born

To down play this moment in favor of a imagined one in the future is to wander down the empty road of religious-like attachments........while the future is so magical. And yet the future is the result of what we do with our present. If we don't tend to the now then our future will continually be a reflection of ones persistent longing.

Saw a clip of new movie with Michael Caine, Jane Fonda etc....and the younger person is lokling through Galaxey telescope at snow covered mountain,

and the older wiser man says to younger person that is the future your looking at, then he spins the scope around and has them look through the other way, and hes states that is the past, it looks smaller are far far away the older you get.

The latter half makes sense, the first future half does needs to be modified. Better if when looking at the mountain if it was fuzzy in order to be the future. imho

And the further into the future the more fuzzy it is what ever were looking at.

r6

[Rokon]

Originally Posted by organic born

The present is what we live in, while the future is so magical. And yet the future is the result of what we do with our present. If we don't tend to the now then our future will continually be a reflection of ones persistent longing. If we invest everything we got around some potential future outcome then the continuous longing that goes with such attachments will effectively hold us within the cage of such accompanying assumptions.

This sounds fuzzy to me. On one hand all we are capable of is "tending to the now". You can't do a thing in the future unless the future arrives, which is now.

Also, now is nothing without context of future and past. Intentions, change, desire MUST have the element of future to even exist. As I speak this I'm thinking the error of the ever-popular "live in the now" axiom is that its meaningless because you cannot "not" exist in the now. What evidence is there that first of all, one can tend to the now as opposed to the past or future? Is it even physically possible to "not" tend to the now? And secondly what evidence is there (if you could tend to the now) that this would change an outcome for the better?

[ian77]

But what is now,..this present moment? What is Time? Instead of living in the present,...how about living in the eternal;the eternal now? How about thinking in terms of not just this one life,but in life times to come,and the end goal of regeneration,re-evolution,the conquering of death.
We all must die. But what if the ultimate quest for humanity is the conquering of death?

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Rokon

This sounds fuzzy to me. On one hand all we are capable of is "tending to the now". You can't do a thing in the future unless the future arrives, which is now.

Also, now is nothing without context of future and past. Intentions, change, desire MUST have the element of future to even exist. As I speak this I'm thinking the error of the ever-popular "live in the now" axiom is that its meaningless because you cannot "not" exist in the now. What evidence is there that first of all, one can tend to the now as opposed to the past or future? Is it even physically possible to "not" tend to the now? And secondly what evidence is there (if you could tend to the now) that this would change an outcome for the better?

This 'now' thing is a perspective-adjusment that I've been dancing in and out of for the last 40 years. If we approach it with words it gets weird. If we simply let-go and live without past and future concerns then the environment around us becomes quiet. Can we maintain an absolute adherence to such a thing (the now), not just as a concept but as a continuous experience? Of course not. Even if we moved to a cave with no stimulus aside from that which we generate ourselves we will still need to tend to our bodily requirements, requiring the use of our brain for future planning. So while living among others in a world of complex patterns we clearly need to be present in such a way that incorporates an ongoing updated image of what our environment "may" potentially generate. We would be traveling blind, if we attempted to abandon any attachment to what's being constructed around us by both ourselves and others. Such planning is where the brain comes in, that's its job. That's why we developed a frontal lobe as a species and rest heavily on the results of such reflection.

We reflect on our 'interpretation' of the past in order to better adjust to the potential of future occurrences. That's our brain at work, that's what generates an ego, it's what drives our perception of this lifetime. To make the ego out to be an enemy of some sort (as I often see spiritual-focused people doing) is counter productive. Our ego is the tool that we rely-on for contextual involvement. And yet our ego is alien to the 'now'. Since the ego is based on contextual maneuvering it needs content to operate per it's evolutionary mandate. Our ego generates images-of-outcomes that we are watchful to apply should the need arise.

It's helpful to be aware of how this works. We are continually working from the base of two separate perspective-initiators. Our ego generates one version of reality while our soul aligns with another. Our soul is alive within us, but our primary means of describing and interacting with 'experience' is being generated by the promptings of ego. Our Soul-perspective is relaxed allowing our egos to drive the physical interactive content of our current definition-of-self.

The more we know about the manor in which this process unfolds the cleaner out experience becomes. When we dream of something different; that's the brain at work. Our soul doesn't need to dream in that way, it's not anchored by time, distance or place. Our souls can access all our past and future occurrences by simply moving to the place that such occurs and then observe as a 'silent' participant as a 'potential' unfolds.

All that we speculate on, while walking around in human form, is brain generated. It's how our soul is able to arrange for itself a unique experience. The more involved our souls become the less unique is the outcome. While in the background it's never Not there. :)

[r6r6]

..................OZO..................

...................O|O..................

..........Past < )|( < Future....

..........)Present|Now(............

..........)2Dslice-|-of-time(......

..................)( *|* )(.................

..Past.>.arrow-of-time.>..Future...

A triangle /\ or as | is the minimal 2D enclosure and 2D slice-of-time.

A circle O or as | is the maximal 2D enclosure and 2D slice-of-time.

The minimal sub-division of a triangular 2D slice-of-time looks like this( see link )

We may express time in a few differrent ways in regards to theconceptual triangle

1) spin i.e. we spin the triangle on its planar edge view ex like the spinning a record or CD or DVD, this can also lead to a wobbly methodology of spinning,

2) we may spin the the triangle on an axis that goes from the vertex through the opposite edge, ex a revolving door so we see the face/opening of triangle then we only see it edge, the face, then edge.

3) we see the central vertex in the link above, move out of the triangles 2D plane, so as we now have a 3D tetra{4}hedron, and this vertex can then move back through the triangular opening, the back again, and it becomes the oscillating operational pattern for some of the earliest atomic cesium clocks
...>....|...>.....
....<....|....<....

This latter movement is also akin to one some of the oldest complex animal species on Earth, jellyfish,{ see link } that propel themselves forward over time, via and oscillatory motion.

r6

[ian77]

As I've said before;I like to keep things simple.I've looked around this forum and seen posts from people who claim to be able to put others in contact with spirit guides,even deities.I think that the search for the truth and meaning to our existence is the search for our Greater Selveshttp://www.thewordfoundation.org.That is the way to real knowledge.
I do not intend to post much more here.My intention was to try to introduce some topics for consideration.I think we urgently need to get a grip and sort our world out.http://www.theatlantic/magazine/arch...-wants/384980/.If this link doesn't work,google 'what is the aim of isis'.

[Rokon]

Originally Posted by ian77

As I've said before;I like to keep things simple.I've looked around this forum and seen posts from people who claim to be able to put others in contact with spirit guides,even deities.I think that the search for the truth and meaning to our existence is the search for our Greater Selveshttp://www.thewordfoundation.org.That is the way to real knowledge.
I do not intend to post much more here.My intention was to try to introduce some topics for consideration.I think we urgently need to get a grip and sort our world out.http://www.theatlantic/magazine/arch...-wants/384980/.If this link doesn't work,google 'what is the aim of isis'.

Ian, are you a missionary for the Word Foundation? Is there salvation to be had there? I say that with a snarky grin..

[ian77]

I wouldn't say a missionary.I'd say a student of The Word.
The Word,however,is The Immortal Conscious Self in every human body.
And its not 'salvation',its 'Self Knowledge'.
Self Knowledge is Real Knowledge.Through Real Knowledge we will return to The Realm of Permanence.That is not said with a snarky grin.