So what do you think will happen in 2012

That's why they call it a phenomena is because it's not physically or scientifically explained or proven. Such as spiritual activity in a home, they would call it a phenomena because they can't come up with an explanation to prove it WASN'T a ghost or something else. Why would this book shelf fall over when there was no earthquake, the book shelf was built properly, no signs of weakness or imbalanced weight to cause a shift, nobody was around to cause it to fall, etc.

But because we can't immediately assume it was a ghost, it's classified as a phenomena.

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

-something that is impressive or extraordinary.
-a remarkable or exceptional person; prodigy; wonder.

I personally don't really see any issues in this debate, don't know why people are seeing Chrysaetos as negative... I personally believe you guys are over-reacting a tad bit here. This is what makes arguments, opposing sides, this is what sparks debates and more. There is no harm here, let's keep it going!

I have no issue wih what Chrysaetos is saying, I was merely pointing out that by the way he words his responses, I am not suprised people are turned off by it a little bit.

I would never try to censor his ideas or thoughts, nor would I tell him he believes in "quackery"...

I am curious to hear what his thoughts are in general, instead of pointing out his perceived "flaws" in other people's comments.

As far as "definitions" are concerned, personally I believe language will only get you so far. The truth, as I see it, is that there is no way to prove your perception and my perception are exactly the same.

We all possess a unique ability to see things any way we wish. What a marvel to behold!

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Ladofthelight

Personally, I could care less if someone believes that a purple stork visits them every third Thursday of the month to give them blessings of the highest order. If it makes them happy and they share that with other people, awesome!

Some things are more innocent then other things. Preaching that the world is going to end, the poles will shift, cataclysms will happen, or the dead will rise.. all hodgepodge. More importantly, it installs fear in people, and gives them a false sense of reality.

A lot of stuff in these 'alternative' movements is fiction presented as fact. It is not backed up by any scientific evidence. Examples are the above but also Nibiru, polar shifts, age of Aquarius, and galactic alignments. We should do our research, and not just be happy with any New Age belief simply because it reinforces these beliefs that we have accepted as our own. This is all very relevant when it comes to 2012 topics.

As for more peaceful ideas about shifts in consciousness and similar ideas.. I disagree with this. People are desperately hoping and waiting for a change, which is powerlessness and fatalism at its best. Believers also have a tendency to only look in those places that reinforces their belief: Alternative websites on the internet, New Age books, psychic business etc. We have to look at reality not just through coloured glasses, it's also good to put them down every now and then.

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

Some things are more innocent then other things. Preaching that the world is going to end, the poles will shift, cataclysms will happen, or the dead will rise.. all hodgepodge. More importantly, it installs fear in people, and gives them a false sense of reality.

A lot of stuff in these 'alternative' movements is fiction presented as fact. It is not backed up by any scientific evidence. Examples are the above but also Nibiru, polar shifts, age of Aquarius, and galactic alignments. We should do our research, and not just be happy with any New Age belief simply because it reinforces these beliefs that we have accepted as our own. This is all very relevant when it comes to 2012 topics.

As for more peaceful ideas about shifts in consciousness and similar ideas.. I disagree with this. People are desperately hoping and waiting for a change, which is powerlessness and fatalism at its best. Believers also have a tendency to only look in those places that reinforces their belief: Alternative websites on the internet, New Age books, psychic business etc. We have to look at reality not just through coloured glasses, it's also good to put them down every now and then.

There's an increase in the amount of people who are wishing for the end of the world. By the way my own mother speaks of this life, she is constantly bringing up the rapture and in ways, you can tell she is waiting for it as if it were to happen in this life time, because of her life is not as satisfying as she wants it to be, she gives into the Rapture theory as a way to make it more tolerable. I know she's not the only one in this...

BTW: Rapture Theory origins:
http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess025.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Malkaynu/rapture.html

I think both Rumar and Chrysaetos make good points,

but I re-iterate that it is all based on your perception. I respect your viewpoints, definitely a reminder of taking everything with a "grain of salt", but I also bring up the idea that if people want to believe in a "rapture", or a pole shift, Niribu, The Annuaki, etc... they have every right to. Who is to say they are wrong and you are correct?

From my perspective, there is no way to prove anything with 100% certainty, simply because everyone has their own perspective.

Is there any way that you can prove that your perception of the color "green" is the same as my perception of that same vibrating EM frequency that we collectively call "green"? You can not see things from my perspective, thus it is not totally "certain".

People that believe in comming cataclysms serve a purpose as well, perhaps they are to remind others to maybe not be so caught up in things like that. Perhaps they are truly sounding an alarm.

For me, I try not to dissect things too much with my conscious mind because I know I am only so capable of understanding things through our version of "science" and reason.

Countless numbers of people have had amazing spiritual experiences for thousands and thousands of years. Long before there was any sort of evolved "science" to perhaps explain what is going on. In my opinion, there is most definitely an esoteric aspect to our exstences here in this realm. I have proven this to myself through many journeys and experiences during altered states of consciousness. Thus again, science just falls a little flat to me. Not to say it isn't interesting, but if I based my reality on that which could only be proven through science, I would consider myself some kind of weirdo because all of these "unexplainable" things are happening to me.

Perhaps also, those that are seeing crumbling economic systems around the world, increased wars, heightened seismic activity, volcanic eruptions, a general distaste for government in general, etc... are sensing a coming "change" on this planet.

Personally, I see it.

I see the empowerment of the individual becoming the most important aspect of the human experience in the coming "years". Whether it happens on a particular day that has some sort of numeralogical signifigence is not for me to say. I wouldn't dare try to forecast something that will take place based on the "free-will" of 6 billion souls.

Taking things out a layer of understanding....

I believe this all to be a divine drama playing out in a terrestrial dimension. I don't believe my physical body to be "real". Death is just as much a part of the infinite journey of the soul as birth is. My physical body is a mere carrying case for my soul.

But, I am definitely here for a purpose... I am most definitely playing a "role" here just like every single other individual in the planet.

How do I know?

My life has been filled with one serendipitous event after another. Some may call is "coincidence", but I call it my intended path. I always have "free-will" though, but I try to use that free-will to do things that will make me the happiest and most loving person I can be. It took me a little bit of "time" to remember this, but once I did, it was as if I had been shocked with a lightning bolt.

I believe this to be the realm of duality and emotional experience. I see the polarizing aspects of this realm getting stronger and stronger and I can feel a turning point coming for everyone. Some of that is hope, but my hope, in my mind is justified by the personal contact I have had with many who are "awakening".

Alas, in this forum, all we have to express ourselves are written words. Words that are perceived differently by each unique individual. Thus, some may believe I am talking out of my butt, but others may resonate with me.

Regardless, things will happen as they will. The only thing I can control is what I personally put out to the universe in my thoughts and intentions. I do believe them to be a form of energy, and yes, science is beginning to prove this fact.

I can also prove it myself by the many telepathic experiences I have had with many of my "closer" friends. That is proof enough for me. As I have intentioned, I have received. I would be interedted to see "science" prove that.

ok. Enough blabbing...

-The Loving Anarchist

[novaspirit]

Hello all!

I do want to just make a statement here. I am in no way upset at Chrysaetos. I just felt that I could not add any more to the conversation. I do very much believe and feel, that everyone has a right to say what they feel and believe. Just as much as I believe and feel that everyone should be allowed to believe what they want to believe without ridicule.

I have no need to prove or defend what I believe. But just the same I would not expect anyone else with me to prove or defend what they believe. It just comes down to respecting each other.

I do enjoy having conversations with people with opposing views and I always find the conversation quite engaging when both parties are listening to each others views, but when I do feel there is no more I can add, I will bow out of the conversation respectfully. I just felt that mine and Chrysaetos' conversation would go round and round in circles and I didn't wish to do that. But I still respect Chrysaetos all the same.

Take care everyone!

Dear Nova, would that more posters respected and enacted that code of conduct when expressing differing points of view and opinions...!

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Ladofthelight

I think both Rumar and Chrysaetos make good points,
but I re-iterate that it is all based on your perception. I respect your viewpoints, definitely a reminder of taking everything with a "grain of salt", but I also bring up the idea that if people want to believe in a "rapture", or a pole shift, Niribu, The Annuaki, etc... they have every right to. Who is to say they are wrong and you are correct?

Who? The scientific evidence.

From my perspective, there is no way to prove anything with 100% certainty, simply because everyone has their own perspective.

You are right, there is no 100% certainty. We can have our own perspectives but that doesn't mean we're always right. There are not 6 billion truths out there. Let's not confuse beliefs with facts. Elephants are grey, and just because you believe in a pink elephant and have that picture in your mind, doesn't mean that it's true or an ''equal truth''. It's up to the believer to prove their claim.

People that believe in comming cataclysms serve a purpose as well, perhaps they are to remind others to maybe not be so caught up in things like that. Perhaps they are truly sounding an alarm.

No. These people are deluding others, inserting fear, and taking their money. Yes they are free to do so, just like I am free to say something about it.

Perhaps also, those that are seeing crumbling economic systems around the world, increased wars, heightened seismic activity, volcanic eruptions, a general distaste for government in general, etc... are sensing a coming "change" on this planet.

But there is not an increase in wars, heightened seismic activities, and more volcanic eruptions.
There is more media attention these days, and we can all get access to it. That doesn't mean that our time is in any way more disastrous then previous times.
Distaste for governments? Which governments?

Cheers.

[Roselove]

Just a note science is constantly evolving, at one point in time people believed the center of our solar sytem is earth etc, there is a lot we have left yet to discover.. and there does seem to be evidence of earth crossing the galatic center of the universe around that time period(source history channel astronmers) As for planet X or Nibiru, I believe that theory came from Sitchin (sp?) the man that translated the anicent sumerian tablets (no mention about beings from that planet returning aside from Nostradumus predictions)

I have my opnion on what may or may not happen during that time frame based on my own research, but I won't dismiss anything as until the date arrives (or some years afterward) we can't say for sure.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Rosewater

Just a note science is constantly evolving, at one point in time people believed the center of our solar sytem is earth etc, there is a lot we have left yet to discover.. and there does seem to be evidence of earth crossing the galatic center of the universe around that time period(source history channel astronmers)

The History Channel isn't the most trustworthy source. I once saw a programme where they claimed that the Pyramids of Gizeh were at the longest point of latitude.
They have also said the Mayans ''predicted'' the ''end of the world''.
More information on 2012:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091106-2012-end-of-world-myths.html
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-guest.html