Non Dual pointers! Pointing at what can't be pointed at.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

When the ego and how it operates is understood it's easy to see how 'Higher' is ego - or an invented thing of the Ahamkara.
If you want to understand it from a Spiritual perspective, spend time with the Atman.
The 'Higher Self' doesn't control the motor functions, the unconscious/brain does.

I dont fear inventions if those are useful .I know u mean invention in different sense but actually that may be a discovery in real sense .

There have been many a sects based on 'Atman' and many a great people with belief in 'Atman' have lived . i have absolutely no problem if that makes your life better with that approach . But I am quite better off with Higher self.
It is this higher self that runs the entire universe including our bodies & mind .So for me Higher Self is very important.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Okay, so you were probably referring to the neo- versions of both. It seems to me much of the complaints/confusion about non-duality center around the neo-method of narrative, skipping most of the details and pointing at the Absolute right off the bat as being all that is needed.

Very much agree . Neo-methods (skipping the detailed penance) unnecessarily glamorizes non duality and promises fully enlightened non-dual state in a jiffy as if it is fast food restaurant churning out fast food at the drop of word.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Very much agree . Neo-methods (skipping the detailed penance) unnecessarily glamorizes non duality and promises fully enlightened non-dual state in a jiffy as if it is fast food restaurant...

Good point.

__________________________________________________ _

Originally Posted by movingalways

When we remember that every word originates in the same Source, we realize that ultimately, judgment of words, especially about nondual realization is foolish - kinda like God smacking his own face.

Your words reflect your consciousness and my words reflect my consciousness, and this is the reason I want to be sure of what I'm talking about. I could have some half-baked idea of what a non-Dual realisation is then start slapping the label on any old notion.

What doesn't always crop up in Spirituality is Right thinking and Right Thinking of the Eightfold Path, and it's important in Spirituality because they provide the foundations of our Spirituality. I've seen so many threads in this forum of ego as the bad guy, and few have realised that the discussion of what the ego is or isn't is psychoanalysis. It seems few Spiritual people have even heard of the Ahamkara. Similarly with discussions of the 'self' where nobody mentions Atman. It gets very messy. Then we come into Personae or 'masks of convenience' which the 'Spiritual Self' and the 'Higher Self' are.

The mental frameworks that redefine the ego, the self and a few other things also define what non-Dual is - and what Duality is. It's not always about judgement, for me it's about authenticity.

Originally Posted by JayTruther

which leaves the monkey mind jumping all over the place making the practice somewhat impossible.

Train the monkey to work for you, not against you.

As you said -
"Seeking needs to be exhausted and seen for yourself to be futile before being aware of awareness can take place without much of a battle."

Yes it does but in non-Duality the seeker is that which is sought, whereas in Duality people are seeking their own projections. Give the monkey-mind enough bananas and it'll do non-Duality for you instead of a brainstorm. But then, the brainstorm is good for "A sense of I am."

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Train the monkey to work for you, not against you.

Mingyur Rinpoche is an early and big influence for my meditation practice. He's also one of the Dalai Lama's top meditators "loaned" to Dr. Richie Davidson and his neuroscience lab at University of Wisconsin at Madison for studying consciousness a dozen or so years back.

Here he speaks to Monkey Mind. https://youtu.be/dG5ywz8OGqo?list=PL...Rm5Y J&t=1814

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

... I have said the seeing briefly happened here, so NOBODY is here doing ANYTHING.

Please explain to me what you "think" non duality is? In that answer you should understand that the ME your referring to that is ermmm....not mature or whatever doesn't actually exist. ...

Non-duality is a belief in a distorted view of reality as every religion, including science and atheism.

Non-duality is detrimental to one's evolvement because it shuts down mind's expansion; it throws the baby out with the bathwater.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

After many years of seeking the realisation seen here is that there is nothing to do except relax, do a 180 and just be aware of awareness and stay there.
Neo Advita would have you do this from day 1 which leaves the monkey mind jumping all over the place making the practice somewhat impossible.
Seeking needs to be exhausted and seen for yourself to be futile before being aware of awareness can take place without much of a battle.

Indeed. Effort is required to reach the point where we are finally willing to surrender all effort and all identification. Surrender creates a space where realisation can happen. After realisation identification with the limitless Self is effortless.

Which is why I question the value of watching endless videos of neo-Advaita teachers who say that there is nothing to do. This may be true after realisation but it seems of limited practical value to those who have yet to realise.

Peace

Originally Posted by JayTruther

I've been practicing SBTs, space between thoughts for a few years which after a while flipped to space with some thought.

That's like The Silence Beyond OM https://youtu.be/KLuqAiCLPvQ

[movingalways]

JayTruther: Neo Advita would have you do this from day 1 which leaves the monkey mind jumping all over the place making the practice somewhat impossible.

The monkey mind is silenced the moment the truth of not-two is recalled. Of course, it often takes years of rejecting the simplicity of the truth of not-two before it is finally accepted and becomes the perfect 'instant shutter-upper.'