Zen video

[sound]

i'll join you for a 'borgs' christmas andrew.


ahhhh , how funny.

all the best to you and ours.

Greetings..

Originally Posted by andrew g

Hi Moonglow, I joined the 'awareness' debate a bit late in the day myself but I think that what you are saying may be something that TzuJanLi agrees with, so I think you can expect to be thanked in the near future for your clarity and sincerity :).

No, Andrw, i would like to thank you for proving my point..

Originally Posted by andrew g

Personally, I would say that because the potential is there to be aware of being aware, then that suggests to me that 'awareness' is something beyond an act or something we have. It suggests to me that it is more of a universal or foundational thing.

So, you believe that because we understand that we are aware of stuff, it's 'foundational'? okay, that was easy.. heck, i understand that the attribute of awareness is fundamentally essential in the sensory process, that without awareness we would be an isolated singularity..

Originally Posted by andrew g

Furthermore its not so much that we expand the awareness we have, its more the case that without a belief in one who HAS awareness, we experience instead a panoramic 360 degree surround sound awareness..

That is no more than belief and imagination, you are bending words and concepts without any supportable evidence to suggest it is an actuality.. Awareness is 'dependent' upon 'that' which receives the information carried by the vehicle of awareness.. with nothing that 'is' there to 'be' aware, there is no awareness.. as there is nothing to 'be' aware. Awareness is not 'stuff' hanging around being aware of itself, that is a story you have told yourself, and convinced yourself to tell others, but.. no one believes it is actually true, it just sounds so dang 'spiritual' that folks keep repeating it in hopes of it making sense.. it never will.

Be well..

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by blackfellawhitefella

i'll join you for a 'borgs' christmas andrew.


ahhhh , how funny.

all the best to you and ours.

Cheers mate :) all the best to you too.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


No, Andrw, i would like to thank you for proving my point..


So, you believe that because we understand that we are aware of stuff, it's 'foundational'? okay, that was easy.. heck, i understand that the attribute of awareness is fundamentally essential in the sensory process, that without awareness we would be an isolated singularity..

Its in the awareness that we are aware that suggests to me that awareness isnt just something people have.


That is no more than belief and imagination, you are bending words and concepts without any supportable evidence to suggest it is an actuality.. Awareness is 'dependent' upon 'that' which receives the information carried by the vehicle of awareness.. with nothing that 'is' there to 'be' aware, there is no awareness.. as there is nothing to 'be' aware. Awareness is not 'stuff' hanging around being aware of itself, that is a story you have told yourself, and convinced yourself to tell others, but.. no one believes it is actually true, it just sounds so dang 'spiritual' that folks keep repeating it in hopes of it making sense.. it never will.

Be well..

I havent said that 'Awareness' is stuff hanging around there, I said it was universal, foundational. Its not one of those things that I really feel the need to massively argue about though, we could call this same foundation 'Being' or 'Source'. Its the same thing to me.

[Gem]

If there were no thought to focus attention there would be no awareness.

The foundation is 'betweeness' which occurs because mind can not discriminate between nothing, one or two things (in isolation), and the dual comparison is completely subjective, ie devoid of context, which is the property of infinity.

As soon as it is nothing it is equally one... or two...

[hybrid]

aware of awareness is self-awareness or awareness aware of itself.
and there is a reason for that. eg. notice that you are aware of the pc monitor.
now notice that you are aware of your awareness of the monitor.

do you see? awareness is infinitely regressive. meaning you can't actually find in awareness that which is aware. all one can do is assume ... It is I that is aware. it is the brain that is aware, this bodymind is aware.

in actual awareness, these assumptions are not provable, so the only thing one can say is awareness is aware of itself since there is nothing behind awareness. awareness is the most basic root fundamental attribute of energy, matter or spirit or whatever you want to call the ground of our existence/being.

but since this ground of being is unmanifest , its first knowable attribute is awareness. so when we say awareness is aware of itself, it is implied that awareness has substance (albeit a non material substance).

.
.

Greetings..

Originally Posted by hybrid

aware of awareness is self-awareness or awareness aware of itself.
and there is a reason for that. eg. notice that you are aware of the pc monitor.
now notice that you are aware of your awareness of the monitor.

do you see? awareness is infinitely regressive. meaning you can't actually find in awareness that which is aware. all one can do is assume ... It is I that is aware. it is the brain that is aware, this bodymind is aware.

in actual awareness, these assumptions are not provable, so the only thing one can say is awareness is aware of itself since there is nothing behind awareness. awareness is the most basic root fundamental attribute of energy, matter or spirit or whatever you want to call the ground of our existence/being.

but since this ground of being is unmanifest , its first knowable attribute is awareness. so when we say awareness is aware of itself, it is implied that awareness has substance (albeit a non material substance).

What is the relevance of this word-play? What is its usefulness?

Be well..

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


What is the relevance of this word-play? What is its usefulness?

Be well..

i am trying to explain the contentious issues about the on going debate here about awareness. kinda bridge the gap between two opposing point of views.

.

[Gem]

Hybrid make the point that to know you are aware, awareness is necessary, and I make the point that awareness is not awareness unless it has a thought in attention, and awareness is temporal in this way.

The notion that something is aware is a notion that there is existance of something which is sometimes unaware, a permanant entity, but I say existance is reliant on thought, and without thought's occurance there is no awareness.

Which alludes to the very nature of thought, being a complete inability to discern between one or two things, and space is infact a distinction which creates the primal dual, but the differentiation lends the same definition to both elements, thus only one definition occurs to mind.