Is nirvana the end of journey?

[sky]

Quote jonesboy.
"I shared with you emptiness and you said there was many different types of emptiness :) "

Chinese Buddhist say there are 18 types of emptiness, I wonder who it correct.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Not really. You are sharing stuff that people who were born way after Buddha taught. You are teaching stuff from particular Buddhist groups, not from Buddha himself. For example, your "rainbow body" stuff. That is a Tibetan Buddhist concept. The idea is from Dzogchen not Buddha. The idea of a "rainbow body" evolved over several centuries as the belief changed and evolved. It is now part of Vajrayana Buddhism belief. Vajrayana was founded by Indian Mahasiddhas, not Buddha. They subscribe to Buddhist tantric literature.

Ryan I have shared with you the concept of spiritual evolution as well as how teachings have reflected that. One thing you have failed to realize is we each have the potential to be a Buddha and that there have been many Buddhas since the one Buddha you are aware off.

With regard to the Lotus Sutra:

The Lotus Sūtra (Sanskrit: Saddharmapuṇḍarīka Sūtra, literally Sutra on the White Lotus of the Sublime Dharma)[1] is one of the most popular and influential Mahayana sutras and the basis on which the Tiantai, Tendai, Cheontae, and Nichiren schools of Buddhism were established. For many East Asian Buddhists, the Lotus sutra contains the ultimate and complete teaching of the Buddha and the reciting of the text is believed to be very auspicious.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra

One person who claimed to have seen the rainbow body was mentioned in a Kunzang Nyingtic Dzogchen meditation manual, the eyewitness described it as "rainbows appearing in the sky at death." Buddha's teachings came from Buddha, not others. But yea you are sharing beliefs from different Buddhist groups. The “rainbow body,” belief is that corpses of highly developed spiritual individuals vanish within days of death. It's similar to the concept of Jesus's body disappearing. I don't think there is any mention of Buddha having a "rainbow body" because the belief came long after Buddha's death. In fact, some early Buddhist texts state that Buddha was cremated.

What comes from maya will return to maya. The rainbow body is not this body if anything it is made up of form, energy it is light.

Kali, Pavarti, the Goddess Tara, Chenrezig and Jesus would be examples of beings of light . Are they all just stories and myths? No they are beings who achieved Buddhahood and the light body.

Yes there are many stories of masters achieving such states and if such powers were not possible the traditions would not last thousands of years nor be the most popular within Buddhism.

Buddhism is about believing in the Buddha, the sangha which is all of the Buddhas, Boddhisattvas etc and the dhrama which is the teachings of said Buddhas.

It is a big mistake to think Buddhism is just about one guy and for example the 4 noble truths.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Quote jonesboy.
"I shared with you emptiness and you said there was many different types of emptiness :) "

Chinese Buddhist say there are 18 types of emptiness, I wonder who it correct.

Excellent, now use what I have shared and compare it to Sunyata and see if it is the same.

For instance I am able to do this because I know there is no difference between you and I. That I am not this form.

Yoga Sutras of Patanjali: http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-33949.htm

3.39 By loosening or letting go of the causes of bondage and attachment, and by following the knowledge of how to go forth into the passages of the mind, there comes the ability to enter into another body.
(bandha karana shaithilyat prachara samvedanat cha chittasya para sharira aveshah)
[Note: In some renditions this is sutra 3.37 or 3.38]

bandha = bondage, attachment
karana = cause
shaithilyat = relaxation, letting go, loosening
prachara = passages, means of going forth, moving through
samvedanat = by knowledge of
cha = and
chittasya = of the consciousness of the mind-field
para = another, other
sharira = body
aveshah = entering into

Entering another body: By loosening or letting go of the causes of bondage and attachment, and by following the knowledge of how to go forth into the passages of the mind, there comes the ability to enter into another body. The advanced yogi may use this power to operate through another body in service of others, such as for guiding sincere students of meditation.

This is really about oneness and is used to help introduce others to deeper levels of silence or to help open chakras.

The opposite of this is merging with divine beings/Yidam deities like the ones I mentioned above. This is considered the most powerful of practices and the method of attaining siddhis.

[jonesboy]

I shared the above not out if ego but for people to understand the teachings have value, that they hold truths that people can achieve.

There is wisdom that has been passed on for thousands of years with one intention. That of helping people progress along the spiritual path.

I am a big believer in a guru because I have one that changed my life and opened my eyes. That blessed me with the ability to help others. I know what it means to really help someone and it has nothing to do with telling them how to live there life.

It really has nothing to do with spiritual teachings either. The teaching is what helps someone understand what they are experiencing.

All the best,

Tom

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by starnight1

In buddhism, when a person reaches the state of nirvana, does that mean he is ONE with Source with universe, does that mean it's the end of karmic wheel, and then it's the final state?
If not, what will happen after that?

and, Is there an end to the journey, or never an end?

I think you actually have two different religions embedded in your question. There is a concept of nirvana from Buddhism and a concept from Hinduism. In the Buddhist context, nirvana refers to the imperturbable stillness of mind after the fires of desire, aversion, and delusion have been finally extinguished. In Hindu philosophy, it is the union with Brahman, the divine ground of existence, and the experience of blissful agelessness.

The Buddhist concept refers to a transformation of consciousness. The Hindu concept is about a union with God. Buddha would never speak of God or "the source." Not because he asserted these things did not exist, but because he wanted people to live without concepts. Buddha wanted people to search for stillness in themselves, not think about god or religious concepts.

"The Source" is a term which came from new age philosophies. It came about basically because many new age people saw religions as causing conflict and violence in the world so they wanted a non-religious word which refers to "god" or our creator.

[starnight1]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

This is a very good question!

Because I read the book, "The Disappearance of the Universe"...what I gathered was here were 2 humans
that led many lives...but then when they lived their last one ( we won't talk, here, how they accomplished that)
they became what we would call Ascended Masters...they even came 'here'
to have this book written to help people.
http://www.garyrenard.com/Preview.htm


They were able to appear to this guy Gary Renard and disappear and a few xs instantly transport him to
another city and back...(child's play to them)
See, they understood, as Jesus did, what this place was all about and how it worked...thus, him walking on water and all.
They not only knew this was all a dream...they were 'outta the dream'....way out...

They explained many things, too many to say here.
My understanding, as Krishna said in the Gita somewhere..we keep our individualization.
On the Other side we have decisions according to our wisdom or soul growth....
if we have become aligned with our Source or Reality....would you want to be a spirit guide following around a human?
Not me.

My understanding we remain in love and remain serving as an individual in different capacities suited to our understanding...
not becoming some blob melted back into the Godhead like
the metal droplet absorbed by a Terminator.

But, what do I know...this is according to all the reading I have done.
And it rings true to me.

Afterall, Paramahansa and Yukteswar and Jesus didn't 'disappear into the Light'
never to be seen again...they are alive and well serving the Divine still.

My subconsciouness feels they r alive too with the Divine Since the Divine is Love and Love is always there.....just like the ACIM tells.
My consciousness reads too many informations books, it has other ideas....

[starnight1]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

I think you actually have two different religions embedded in your question. There is a concept of nirvana from Buddhism and a concept from Hinduism. In the Buddhist context, nirvana refers to the imperturbable stillness of mind after the fires of desire, aversion, and delusion have been finally extinguished. In Hindu philosophy, it is the union with Brahman, the divine ground of existence, and the experience of blissful agelessness.

The Buddhist concept refers to a transformation of consciousness. The Hindu concept is about a union with God. Buddha would never speak of God or "the source." Not because he asserted these things did not exist, but because he wanted people to live without concepts. Buddha wanted people to search for stillness in themselves, not think about god or religious concepts.

"The Source" is a term which came from new age philosophies. It came about basically because many new age people saw religions as causing conflict and violence in the world so they wanted a non-religious word which refers to "god" or our creator.

I don't know Source is a new age world, but u r right maybe it is a non-religous word to refer to God or Creator.
and i feel every religion tells some truth, same time with some limitations it seems.

[starnight1]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The Dao is really all that is. It is becoming a World Buddha that one creates a stable bubble or universe with all of countless dimensions.

You see even a Buddha still has a I part of him. Giving up that last part he returns to the source. The Dao is all that is and does not expand or contract.

Here is a discription of primordial emptiness:


Primordial emptiness is like a bubbling sea of nothingness, brimming with potential. It can be most easily described in the realization of three components, but each of the component is inseparable. These components are Void, motion (or energy) and potential.

The void is empty with no activity at all. Nothing to perceive and nothing to sense. Like a totally dead sea with no motion. The nature of void can be found going deeper and deeper into meditation. The is a common goal in many traditions. But, it is beyond senses, lights or astral visions. All activity in mind (or universal mind) is dropped such that nothing is left. All perception is gone, such that the mind is still and for all practical purposes, one and everything "ceases".

When the nothingness of void "moves" or changes state, one has "energy". Energy has no true substance as it is only the motion of void, but it gives rise to something to be "perceived". In it's emergence, energy can be guided by "intent". First energy is noticed on a subconscious level, but with greater realization, it can be guided and affected. First in one's body, and later as greater mental obstructions are cleared on a universal level.

When one has fully realized the void and one experiences energy 24/7 in a conscious (controlled) manner, one integrates the two and can notice the "potential". The potential is the pristine clarity (or light) of the void. Or in more modern terms, it is the structure or raw building stuff of mind/universal mind. All that exists or potentially can exist is a transmission of this pristine clarity/light.

When one fully realizes these three components as integrated and inseparable, they have realized ultimate emptiness. One "sees behind" the curtain (of mind) and becomes stabilized in the primordial sea.

Ultimately, void is nothingness, energy is the motion of nothingness, clarity (or light) is the realization of the potential of it all that can be guided by intent.

http://community.livingunbound.net/i...ss-what-is-it/

"You see even a Buddha still has a I part of him. Giving up that last part he returns to the source. The Dao is all that is and does not expand or contract."
----If so,it makes me "sad".....why does buddha take a lot efforts to do everything and eventually he goes to nothingness?
we everyone is trying our best every day to live to the fullest and we finally will go to nothingness?

In the http://community.livingunbound.net/ , Jeff and Kevin discussed the emptiness.
Kevin's idea is the emptiness doesnt mean nothing, it means "fullness".with full potential for everything.
Jeff's idea is the emptiness is nothing.the "fullness"is the full conscinesess or universal conscieness so it must go to emptiness finally.
----Their discussion is difficult to fully understand.......
from this discussion Dao means nothingness,
from Dao de Ching(Laozi), Dao means the way of life(love), it embraces everything opens to all.
So...?

still pondering.....

[sky]

Originally Posted by starnight1

"You see even a Buddha still has a I part of him. Giving up that last part he returns to the source. The Dao is all that is and does not expand or contract."
----If so,it makes me "sad".....why does buddha take a lot efforts to do everything and eventually he goes to nothingness?
we everyone is trying our best every day to live to the fullest and we finally will go to nothingness?

In the http://community.livingunbound.net/ , Jeff and Kevin discussed the emptiness.
Kevin's idea is the emptiness doesnt mean nothing, it means "fullness".with full potential for everything.
Jeff's idea is the emptiness is nothing.the "fullness"is the full conscinesess or universal conscieness so it must go to emptiness finally.
----Their discussion is difficult to fully understand.......
from this discussion Dao means nothingness,
from Dao de Ching(Laozi), Dao means the way of life(love), it embraces everything opens to all.
So...?

still pondering.....

You seem to be mixing Taoism with Buddhism, they are different teachings. The Buddha taught no-thingness which is different from nothingness.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

You seem to be mixing Taoism with Buddhism, they are different teachings. The Buddha taught no-thingness which is different from nothingness.

No it's not the Buddha taught Sunyata. Look it up . Also, all the great teachings are saying and pointing to the same thing. Some just go farther than others.

Sunyata is the same as the Dao.

Taoism is Buddhism . All that is going on is LZ shared his teaching, his depth. Just think of it as another tradition within Buddhism.