Dont need or want sex

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

It's so cool to understand both guys.
It's a simple matter of how each one looks at it, their vantage mentally and/or emotionally and/or sexually.
You have a much more matter-of-fact stance and the other fellow says hey, I 'make love' not JUST have sex.

It would seem to me that being so fussy over the phrasing just indicates that the poster has something to prove...

[Silver]

Yeah, they're just on opposite ends, methinks.

Originally Posted by SeaZen

Very good, well thought out commentary DE. I however, do not think conditioning has a lot to do with it during the male teen and twenty years. The hormones are just too strong then. Im sure you remember those frequent strong hardons at that time in your youth. It wasn't societal conditioning causing that. Its a shame that advertisers say in order to be a man you must get laid but even in the absence of that negative conditioning, Im sure guys that age would still feel the urgent overpowering physiological drive to get laid often.

Actually, maybe not that frequent, I still have those hardons!

During my male teen and twenty years I remember, then the conditiong worked the strongest. For a boy, not making sex with women was a social shame. So much, that it was better to lie about it, and brag about this and that...

Sex is natural, not good nor bad. Just a phisiological trick for nature's purposes. A mechanical thing. Pleasurable, sometimes. Painful, other times.

The "problem" is the identification. And the idea that something must be done.

The problem, any problem, comes from the (illusory) idea of being someone.

[SeaZen]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

I think many if not most women want the 'depth' of a good relationship. Sorry to say, lots of women probly sacrifice or use, if you will, their bodies in hopes of snagging the depths, not knowing themselves, or have that 'depth' and it's so incredibly sad that men can be shallow and smirk, but if women are, they're ***** and ho's. Go figure.

I find your general statement about men feeling that women are ***** and ho's shallow, misguided and stereotypical. Many men have come a long way in accepting, incorporating, experiencing and projecting the sensitivity of the divine feminine when dealing with the opposite sex. Just read the posts of the majority of the male members on this forum. Not just on the forum but in society in general.

Though many men may still think as you describe, the fact is more men have accepted and incorporated the divine feminine than women have the divine masculine and I wholeheartedly stand by this statement. Women, it seems, just want men to change but they refuse to change themselves.

Its the majority of women who refuse for whatever reason to accept, incorporate, experience and project the divine masculine part of themselves. Perhaps, if they have the courage and willingness to do so, men would find them interesting and desirous of a long term relationship. Have they ever thought about that strategy??!! I think not. And no, a willingness to "put out" is not an indication of the divine masculine in women. It is a confidence, exuberance, celebration and experience of ones inner self and their sexual nature that defines this IMO.

[SeaZen]

Originally Posted by tragblack

It would seem to me that being so fussy over the phrasing just indicates that the poster has something to prove...

Not at all. Its about challenging and debating the statements and beliefs of others so that we can, through this process, come to some kind of evolved wisdom. I must admit, I do have fun doing so!

Isn't that what the forum is about? If not, it is nothing more than a dogmatic religious church where everyone believes the same thing and comes together for purely social reasons.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by SeaZen

I find your general statement about men feeling that women are ***** and ho's shallow, misguided and stereotypical. Many men have come a long way in accepting, incorporating, experiencing and projecting the sensitivity of the divine feminine when dealing with the opposite sex. Just read the posts of the majority of the male members on this forum. Not just on the forum but in society in general.

Anybody can do the math, Do you know how many men there are in the world? If they are as you say, more women would be seeing this change it would be too obvious and they would rejoice, of that I have no doubt. Yeah, some are gonna be stickinthemuds, but we're all human. You have no way to back up what you're saying right there. I beg to disagree with you that I am misguided and prone to stereotypes.

Though many men may still think as you describe, the fact is more men have accepted and incorporated the divine feminine than women have the divine masculine and I wholeheartedly stand by this statement. Women, it seems, just want men to change but they refuse to change themselves.

Refer to above comment.

Its the majority of women who refuse for whatever reason to accept, incorporate, experience and project the divine masculine part of themselves. Perhaps, if they have the courage and willingness to do so, men would find them interesting and desirous of a long term relationship. Have they ever thought about that strategy??!! I think not. And no, a willingness to "put out" is not an indication of the divine masculine in women. It is a confidence, exuberance, celebration and experience of ones inner self and their sexual nature that defines this IMO.

To a degree, I agree with the first part of your statement. If your above paragraph contained all the factors in relationships, it WOULD be a snap, but it ain't.

[SeaZen]

Actually, maybe not that frequent, I still have those hardons!

Now isn't that a beautiful wonderful blessing that nature or whatever has bestowed upon us males? I REVEL in it!

Originally Posted by de.spin

During my male teen and twenty years I remember, then the conditiong worked the strongest. For a boy, not making sex with women was a social shame. So much, that it was better to lie about it, and brag about this and that.
.

This was and probably still is true. But that does not diminish the physiological fact that we still had overpowering strong frequent hard ons during that time and wanted to get laid often. It just indicates that we went about this process in a dysfunctional way due to societal conditioning.

Sex is natural, not good nor bad. Just a phisiological trick for nature's purposes. A mechanical thing. Pleasurable, sometimes. Painful, other times.

I disagree with the "trick for nature's purposes" part of this statement in addition to the painful times. How is sex painful unless you have some physiological condition to make it so?

The "problem" is the identification. And the idea that something must be done.

This is societal conditioning saying that in order to be a "worthy, manly (or whatever) man, you must get laid". Regardless of what society says though, the drive is still there my friend. You are 18 years of age, you see a pretty girl that smiles at you, you then get hard and feel like getting to know her and having sex. Its that simple. Societal conditioning has only to do with the dysfunction, not the function.

The problem, any problem, comes from the (illusory) idea of being someone

Agreed, the problem is the dysfunctional attempt to live up to societies standards and conditioning regarding sex and the opposite sex, but not the actual drive in and of itself. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater DE.

Of course, the older we get the more we evolve and the differently we feel but lets not disavow and reject the feelings we had when we were 18 nor the feelings of our 18 year old brethren.

[SeaZen]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

Anybody can do the math, Do you know how many men there are in the world?

The ratio of men to women in the world is approximately equal 50 - 50. I agree that men control the economics and power of the world and have done a **** poor job of it, but I am not speaking of that 0.0005 percent of the male population
Courtesy of google:

Approximately 50.34% are men & 49.66% are women.

If they are as you say, more women would be seeing this change it would be too obvious and they would rejoice, of that I have no doubt.

What has been your experience and that of your friends and of this forum? My experience in this regard has been as I stated and I still stand by that. Sure, there have been divorces and problems due to differences and infidelity but that has not been due to males thinking of women as "***** and ho's".

Yeah, some are gonna be stickinthemuds, but we're all human. You have no way to back up what you're saying right there.

As far as the forum goes I do. The majority of guys here (including myself believe it or not) have expressed appreciation of relating to the opposite sex in the nature of the divine feminine. Not so visa versa with the females (in all fairness, there are about 2 or 3 I can think of that have). Perhaps there are more but they haven't expressed this. As far as my personal experience with friends and acquaintances etc. I can back this up as well. I agree that the general status of male/female understanding in the world is quite dismal but I really do feel IMO, that guys are trying harder to live and express the divine feminine to our mates than visa versa. We may not be doing it at the high level women want, but hey, at least we are trying and hopefully making strides!

I beg to disagree with you that I am misguided and prone to stereotypes

Silvergirl, I have the utmost respect and spiritual affection for you, but the following statement confuses me, especially the part in bold. It is a negative statement about "men" in general and general negative statements about "men" or any other group can be construed as stereotypical. Were you perhaps saying this in jest? Please help me to understand this statement of yours.

Sorry to say, lots of women probly sacrifice or use, if you will, their bodies in hopes of snagging the depths, not knowing themselves, or have that 'depth' and it's so incredibly sad that men can be shallow and smirk, but if women are, they're ***** and ho's. Go figure

If your above paragraph contained all the factors in relationships, it WOULD be a snap, but it ain't.

True, there are socio-economic and egoic factors involved in a relationship as well among other things, but I sincerely feel that if men embraced, experienced and expressed the divine feminine and visa versa, that would be a significantly major accomplishment that would make the other stuff more easily resolvable IMO.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by SeaZen

The ratio of men to women in the world is approximately equal 50 - 50. I agree that men control the economics and power of the world and have done a **** poor job of it, but I am not speaking of that 0.0005 percent of the male population
Courtesy of google:

I refuse to believe the 'happiest most contented crowd in our most advanced countries/societies' constitute the majority in this world. I'm always referring to the larger world NOT just this forum, fyi.

What has been your experience and that of your friends and of this forum? My experience in this regard has been as I stated and I still stand by that. Sure, there have been divorces and problems due to differences and infidelity but that has not been due to males thinking of women as "***** and ho's".

See above statement. This forum is by and large a haven. The real world isn't. I really prefer to talk about the larger world. It's much more complex than the crowd here.

As far as the forum goes I do. The majority of guys here (including myself believe it or not) have expressed appreciation of relating to the opposite sex in the nature of the divine feminine. Not so visa versa with the females (in all fairness, there are about 2 or 3 I can think of that have). Perhaps there are more but they haven't expressed this. As far as my personal experience with friends and acquaintances etc. I can back this up as well. I agree that the general status of male/female understanding in the world is quite dismal but I really do feel IMO, that guys are trying harder to live and express the divine feminine to our mates than visa versa. We may not be doing it at the high level women want, but hey, at least we are trying and hopefully making strides!

In my time, I've read lots of books, magazines, all sorts of stuff and the state of affairs between men and women and family issues is incredibly dismal. Once again, I never refer to just the tiny little world of our forum here.

Silvergirl, I have the utmost respect and spiritual affection for you, but the following statement confuses me, especially the part in bold. It is a negative statement about "men" in general and general negative statements about "men" or any other group can be construed as stereotypical. Were you perhaps saying this in jest? Please help me to understand this statement of yours.

Refer to above statement(s). I can't in good conscience let you go about thinking the world is as rosy as you seem to paint it. It's hell. I believe I'm being realistic here.

'Widdie55, have you and your wife considered exploring Tantra? It's got two different aspects, the inward and the outward, and in the outward aspect sexual joining is done with both partners in the lotus position w/o moving in a sexual manner for the orgasm isn't physical, it's spiritual. You might find this interesting to explore. It's not something I could consider, for I'm too physically oriented in pleasure from sex, but it seems to me that someone like you might find this to be a great practice, and hopefully your wife would agree if she's also spiritual and may seek enlightenment.

Blessings,
~Dru (*