Reacting or Not Reacting to Violence

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Astralyra

Hi Gem,

I think choice is taken out of the equation once the person has shown they are incapable of being humane. The problem is, is that the individual at hand does not see anything abnormal about their behaviour, or enjoys what their behaviour creates, and they will never subscribe to change, the only thing that these types of folk subscribe to is inflicting pain on others. Trying to empower someone like that is like trying to empower change on how the government conducts it's business.

Such an individual is unlikely to want to change.

We can only hope that one day sick violent people will wake up and say to themselves hey what I am doing is wrong on so many levels, lets sit quietly and do some self enquiry. It's never going to happen and I can't help but laugh because these are the types of folk that really need to embrace spirituality

Basically, if people want to change and they want help to turn over a new leaf, they're pretty much able to do it if given the right conditions. There's a small possibility they might become spiritually inclined... but what people need is something for themselves to decide, which isn't anything spiritual in many cases.

I often saw fictional violence as catharsis, I say this bearing in mind that instinctively we were born to violence for survival, back in the day, that is to say that in your gene pool resides the hunter gatherer.

I reckon I can live with catharsis easier than killing a thing for real but remain aware that some Cow may well have died to provide the leather on my shoes.

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Neville

I often saw fictional violence as catharsis, I say this bearing in mind that instinctively we were born to violence for survival, back in the day, that is to say that in your gene pool resides the hunter gatherer.

I reckon I can live with catharsis easier than killing a thing for real but remain aware that some Cow may well have died to provide the leather on my shoes.

I suspect we all gravitate to catharsis of the particular emotion(s) we have trouble expressing.

I also suspect that those who have seen way more violence than they want for a lifetime are those who are wounded by seeing more of it on the news, in society.

But those exposed to violence are the most "trained" in showing it.

Which gets back to Gem's contention--that we don't want to look at it. And that maybe that leads to not dealing with it.

This all makes me dizzy--and unsure if there are any simple solutions.

Lora

But those exposed to violence are the most "trained" in showing it.

Interesting contention, many , I would humbly suggest, having been exposed to it , would be very quick to run from it. If my own experience as a former military type is anything to go by. I do accept we are all different.

Its simply that having seen violence, I kinda went off it. Maybe it's like chocolate, great in one or two pieces, but three or four bars and yuk.

I know I should not compare violence with chocolate having never used chocolate as a weapon yet( There's time yet )... If violence, all be it for self preservation resides in our genome there ain't much of anyway of extricating or separating our self from it. Because it is a part of us.

Which on the face of it can be seen as an uncomfortable truth in certain quarters.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by IsleWalker

I suspect we all gravitate to catharsis of the particular emotion(s) we have trouble expressing.

I also suspect that those who have seen way more violence than they want for a lifetime are those who are wounded by seeing more of it on the news, in society.

But those exposed to violence are the most "trained" in showing it.

Which gets back to Gem's contention--that we don't want to look at it. And that maybe that leads to not dealing with it.

This all makes me dizzy--and unsure if there are any simple solutions.

Lora

The subject gives me a bit of a nausea discomfort, because it altogether a nasty business... I mean it's not conducive to a happy buzz, innit?

It was pretty violent where I grew up, and I'm not particularly affected by bad news media, but whereas I love a good violent movie or TV like Breaking Bad or something, the news is kinda disturbing. I seen it a lot in society, and face to face is obviously most impact.

In my case violence formed a significant portion of my society, though I wasn't violent myself except in a defensive sense, but it still skews the mental framework through which one views the world. It took years, a decade or more, to adjust socially to a safe environment.

In the other side of, where I keep up with social issues, the cycle of violence is said to be an intergenerational cycle, and we talk about breaking the cycle. I don't think many people in the field grasp the the full scale of environment, social norms and the individual's world view.

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Neville

Interesting contention, many , I would humbly suggest, having been exposed to it , would be very quick to run from it. If my own experience as a former military type is anything to go by. I do accept we are all different.

Its simply that having seen violence, I kinda went off it. Maybe it's like chocolate, great in one or two pieces, but three or four bars and yuk.

I know I should not compare violence with chocolate having never used chocolate as a weapon yet( There's time yet )... If violence, all be it for self preservation resides in our genome there ain't much of anyway of extricating or separating our self from it. Because it is a part of us.

Which on the face of it can be seen as an uncomfortable truth in certain quarters.

Neville--

I understand where you're coming from. I was talking about "trained" in terms of frequent seeing/experience of personal violence as a child/adult. In those cases you absorb things you don't even realize you have until years later.

That's different than seeing it first in war, which is, I'm sure, totally traumatic.

Lora

P.S. And my point was, if you've experienced a lot of anything (violence) you are one that doesn't want to be around it, see it. I was saying that people may crave what they want more of or can't express themselves--romantic comedies, action movies. I haven't yet figured out what emotion is brought about by the vampire/werewolf fantasies!

I would like to see less people being harmed by individuals. The thing that upsets me about violence is that so many get away with it, that's my angle

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Astralyra

Yep we all can only work within the boundaries of the system, regarding financial survival on earth, although many born into poverty come out at the other end and change their lives around, many take that route, but also many take the route of violence, maybe because they are bitter, I don't know.

Mental Illness these days is caused more through the abuse of drugs/alcohol. It's like a frenzy out there, a lot of weak souls.

Astralyra - I personally have to disagree that mental illness is caused more through abuse of drugs/alcohol only because I haven't seen any compelling evidence of this. Having a severely mentally ill sister, I'm pretty close to the subject. My feeling on mental illness is that those inflicted with it aren't weak souls, but have bad conditioning through life as well as chemical imbalances in the brain. I wouldn't think that anyone who suffers with a mental illness would say they are glad they suffer from it. Life can be horribly hard for these people. When mental illness causes or prevents someone from committing a serious crime, especially heinous, I believe they should be held accountable irregardless to their conscious decision to commit a crime. But these people can be rehabilitated with mental health treatment.

I also believe criminals that aren't mentally ill can change as well. I actually knew someone that served several years in prison and when he got out he was so grateful to have his life and family back, he became a model citizen. No one likes crime, but people are complex and what drives a person onto one path or another is unpredictable.

I feel too that when a person grows up observing violence, they can make a conscious decision later on in life to replicate what they've seen or go the complete opposite way being highly compassionate and empathetic to other's suffering.

Blackraven

[IsleWalker]

Blackraven--

I think you can carry your interpretation a step further and say that all illness, including mental illness, is caused by spiritual imbalances. They begin to manifest in little illnesses, dysfunction. Knee problems--inability to bend, heart problems--usually a closing off of the heart due to relationships (in this life or others). Alzheimers--unwillingness to live in the world the way it is .

Drug and alcohol or other addictions represent other imbalances. But they all are from spiritual out, not physical in--IMO.

There are many that don't buy this idea. I have lived with mental illness in several family members. I don't "blame" those who are ill, but it is, at soul level, our task to deal with the imbalances and make appropriate choices. A propensity to drug and alcohol is just a symptom of another spiritual imbalance that has been ignored or we have chosen not to deal with because it is too difficult--IMO. I know many will disagree, but even with mental illness, at some level we all are making choices.

Lora

For sure alcohol and drug abuse causes mental illnesses, not everyone's in the world but a large chunk. Whether they are spiritually challenged or imbalanced or just simply weak souls.

I agree with bits and pieces of everybodies thoughts.

As far as Reacting or Not Reacting to violence, I have been the fortunate observer of seeing how the universe rids itself of sick violent energy.

Many years ago my teenage nephew was king hit for no reason whilst he was waiting for a cab with his friends, by a man twice his age? Now as events have turned out, this man has recently been king hit and has died at the fists and feet of three young men.

There are many lenses in which to view this from, and the one I choose is that eventually violence will turn on itself. It does not make me happy that this man has died by the very same behaviour that he himself embodied when bashing my nephew, but he is now dead, and whilst people say that he was a good bloke, and he owned his own business and that many people loved him, I bet these very same people don't know that he bashed my nephew. The paper wrote a story about him painting him a model citizen. Maybe on some levels he was, but now he is no longer because maybe the universe is trying to cleanse itself? just some thoughts