Sathya Sai Baba, the Man = Human; All Human Avatars are HUMAN

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Well that makes sense psycolice.

Would you agree that some of the "naughty" or questionable behavior of prophets in the Old Testament like Moses etc, and masters in India, and Buddhas etc is because they transcend the dualism of good and bad? They speak and act from that Higher Consciousness and if it requires in their present role to go to war, scold others, or do some unsavory things that we are judging it from the lack of understanding?

Example: Moses doing some heinous stuff during tribal warfare and tribal collective consciousness seems sinful or bad towards today standards, but perhaps those were the ways in those days when he manifested his Higher Consciousness?

Now I am not coming to grips with Sathya Sai Baba. Those video that TThor and I posted convince me beyond doubt of what he was REALLY about and I don't like it.

Yea, but i just don't buy the stories of Moses and the rest, because that is what people make of them stories. Yea Baba is nothing more than a trickster, there's a lot of that happening over in India.

[Amilius777]

Completely agree with you.

I meant as an "example" or a metaphorical point that a learned student would dwell upon. Not to be taken literally.

In fact I like to think of Moses' crusades in the Old Testament as forms of dedication, catharsis, and such. It always says- "And the Lord said to Moses go and kill all fruits of the tribe- men, women, children without mercy!"'

It can not be literal because right after that Moses wrote the Ten Commandments and one of them is not to murder.

I think its ALL symbolic language. Moses needs to purge all the bad qualities of himself and it's possible offspring without mercy to be completely one with the Source/God/I AM that I AM, etc.

If Moses existed like he did in the Old Testament I want nothing to do with him. Sounds like a raging psychotic lunatic and murderer.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Completely agree with you.

I meant as an "example" or a metaphorical point that a learned student would dwell upon. Not to be taken literally.

In fact I like to think of Moses' crusades in the Old Testament as forms of dedication, catharsis, and such. It always says- "And the Lord said to Moses go and kill all fruits of the tribe- men, women, children without mercy!"'

It can not be literal because right after that Moses wrote the Ten Commandments and one of them is not to murder.

I think its ALL symbolic language. Moses needs to purge all the bad qualities of himself and it's possible offspring without mercy to be completely one with the Source/God/I AM that I AM, etc.

If Moses existed like he did in the Old Testament I want nothing to do with him. Sounds like a raging psychotic lunatic and murderer.

You know I could listen to you all day.

[Amilius777]

Yeah right, sure! lol

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by TThor

Oh, and by the way, just for clarity's sake, for me an Avatar is someone like us, a human being, who has walked the Path to Awakening, and then "is given" the role of retransmitting its modalities to his fellow humans. Thus, an awakened Master who does not have this role is not an Avatar (but that doesn't make him/her less).

For the particular person of this thread, whether the allegations are true or not (sometimes Masters are falsely accused), I don't see what so great teaching this man has brought to humanity. A magical trick here and there, even if it were authentic, is far from my idea of a fruit-bearing teaching.

Ok this is my last post on this
firstly NO, your definition of an avatar is incorrect,the word `Avatar` means descent, as in god descending for the benefit of the earth and mankind. It is used to specifically differentiate from the usual human spiritual growth which is upward toward god. Humans who achieve god realisation (and there are very few who have) are known as avadhuttas...self realised humans, this is what you are referring to TThor.

Sai Baba, built schools and universities to educate the `ineducatable` common folk in India, he built hospitals that to this day provide free health for the common folk, he provides water to villages that don`t have it. He has a massive following in India and if you and the others on here who criticize actually took the time to read his writings you would find a wealth of spiritual knowledge and parables built up over 50 years that leave the paltry few we have left from lord Jesus teachings in the shade.

I have had, as I mentioned before, huge experiences directly from Sai Baba, he was the real deal, and the unsubstantiated claims of one or two kids who were forced to follow him by thier parents and didnt like it, so made out those ridiculous allegations hold no sway with me, BTW, NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER BEEN PROVEN.

Baba was profound, meaningful kind and loving, you really need to not just read the knockers on the internet but go a bit deeper into his real teachings, and listen to the hundreds of thousands of folks who were blessed with divine experiences through him. He was not a rajneesh who bought himself 30 odd rolls royce`s and then left his devotees in a terrible state.

Human beings cant deal with the idea of an avatar, god in human form, it scares the ego to death. We killed Jesus last time, crucified him and now society is villifying baba, based on half baked stories...Look what he did, read his writings, spend an equal amount of time listening to the people who benefited from his incarnation and speak positively of him, get a balanced view. For over 50 years this man raised the spiritual level of millions of people.
And thats all I am saying

I never said that this was a definition of Avatar. If you read carefully, you will notice that I wrote "for me". Although your definition is accurate religiously speaking, I do not believe that the god Vishnu, for example, incarnates 10 times as an individual, an anthropomorphic being. I believe in Vishnu as a Cosmic Principle that anyone can incarnate, just as the Osiris or the Christic Principle (which are all one and the same). In another words, for your inner God, or his unique Son :) to descend in you, you must walk the Path... and each and everyone must start as a human being (sometimes born with part, or the totally of the Path from another life).

As for the case Sai Baba, I can only respect your believes. It is my opinion however that the good that he has made for you, came from within yourself. You had in you. It is true that he built schools and hospitals... and when I was in Bangalore, I even noticed that the main tourist brochure lists his ashram as one of the major attractions of the region. As for the allegations of sexual abuse of teenagers, I am truly sorry to say that there are very many and that many teenagers spoke. It is not something to be doubted anymore. I will not enter in the details of the specific cases here. Verify the sources.

This being said, very rarely is something totally good or totally bad in this physical dimension. An Avatar (in my definition) tends towards perfection and his teachings too.

Finally, I would say that we do not have the same definition of a fruit-bearing teaching. Give me specific practices, a definite work, tools and keys, on psychology, Inner-Self, meditation, sexuality, bodily energies, breathing technics, etc., etc. etc. A few stories and some nice words is good, yes, but not good enough for me.

Now of course I have nothing against you Peteyzen or anyone in this forum . This answer is directed towards the man in question. And although I agree with Amy green that one cannot juge by the physical appearance, I also agree with Amilius777 that this man is SCARY.

[Amilius777]

Differences between Jesus and Sai Baba/Other Hindu Avatars:

Jesus was a social outcast/the others weren't.

Jesus was a healer, exorcist, and feasted with the poor and rich/the others are questionable

Jesus was Jewish-he believed he was the embodiment of the Hebrew God/Hindu avatars claim to be incarnations of one of many gods or believe they are literal descents.

Jesus called himself the Messiah- a Jewish title for king and anointed by God/Hindu avatars claim to be yogis, masters, etc

There are no avatar traditions in Judaism/Hinduism is full of avatars

Jesus had disciples to start a new movement/Avatars have disciples to make them into self-realized beings and become more avatars.

---

The list is endless. I think we need to stop "COLOR CODING" other cultures and worlds. Stop the Hindu Chameleon attitude. This has been done with everyone. Buddhists do it too. They don't understand the Jewish Heritage or it's relationship with YHWH, so how can they understand Jesus?

Btw did anyone watch the videos TThor and I posted? They would immediately cause the person to completely flee from people like Saytha Sai Baba.

Its not that an avatar becoming human scares my ego, its the fact that the entire premise is REVOLTING, when God is within everybody as we speak. There is no need for special god-men and lords from the 4th ray of blah blah consciousness. Jesus' claim as Son of God is in fact a literal one according to historians and archaeology. Adam-Melchizedek are the only Biblical figures besides angels called "The Son of God". It was a title, a mantle, a representation of the Jewish God, an embodiment of YHWH who is not a divine individual, but more of a Verb as one Kabbalist said- "The Goding Process". Usually YHWH was spoken in terms of breath- not with human language,

In case you guys missed the video of the wonderful Saytha Sai Baba: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNVJyycAZYw

Following reading about Baba in Wikipedia, I got this realisation/possible insight into this situation that could explain both sides of the argument on this thread - see what you think of it. Firstly let me say that I agree with TThor that something in the physical world is very rarely totally good or totally bad.

In 1940 Sathya (to give him the name he was born with) lost consciousness and, on regaining consciousness, his behaviour changed markedly. A few months later he proclaimed to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. (Later still, in 1963, he said he would be reborn as Prema Sai Baba in Karnataka - something I find a bit problematic to acknowledge/believe).

So, is it not possible that, as the reincarnation of Baba, Sathya is filled with a higher vibration that has so inspired so many others. Yet, as Sathya he may have succumbed to less savoury actions, as have been reported and exposed.

[Amilius777]

Very insightful Amy! Thank you for that.

Well I shouldn't have jumped saying Sai Baba is pure evil. No human being is. But if the accusations against Sai Baba are true then he is both a deluded person and sexually immoral.

This shouldn't be a shock. A huge majority of celibate priests from all religions develop a disorder towards sex and become pedophiles- they obsess over young boys. Psychology is still trying to figure this out but it is a sick disorder that needs to be evaluated in a person development.

I have heard stories of people going through comas, NDEs, brain surgery, etc and becoming entirely different. In fact there was a man who needed surgery on his pineal or pitutary gland (can't remember). There was a tumor. When the tumor grew he grew affection towards little boys and when it was removed it completely passed away.

I think Sai Baba is both a very self-deluded man and possibly sexual deviant who never sought treatment.

Just look at Sylvia Browne.- a great example of being self-deluded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRc4LkBRjIc

I agree with both of you, really, some humans can embody higher principles and at the same time do such low things. Take another example, Rasputin (though I prefer him 10 000 times over Sai Baba!).

Another point, it is true that there are some differences, apparently major, in the theological concepts behind the Christ and the Hindu yogis/masters. But one shouldn't forget that in Hinduism there is also a trinity, and that one of its members does take human forms, i.e. Vishnu. In the Hindu religion, Rama or Krishna for example are not mere yogis, they are incarnations of Vishnu.