How to differentiate between astral projection and dreaming

For myself, I have had numerous experiences where I felt I was out of body, but knew that I was not. I was dreaming that I was out of body.

When I am genuinely out of body there is no mistaking it. It is accompanied by a powerful energetic difference, for one thing, and for another 'out of body' and 'astrally projecting' are very different as well.

...In my experience.

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by Humm

The fundamental problem is that how one thinks of their thoughts defines their own thinking. They become captured in a box of their own thinking because of the metaphysical nature of mind.

Put this way, how to open the box becomes self evident.

The following is my opinion (for some odd reason people get angry at me when I don't explicitly state this... like they're expecting that I can give something OTHER than my opinion... like I can state fact or something on this subject. LoL)

It's that definition of "their own thoughts" that I feel is the reason most people come to the conclusion that you did in your previous post.

When one comes to the conclusion that there is never a point when you're ever "in a body" to begin with, realization then hits like a truck. It's all just perception.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Xanth

The following is my opinion (for some odd reason people get angry at me when I don't explicitly state this... like they're expecting that I can give something OTHER than my opinion... like I can state fact or something on this subject. LoL)

It's that definition of "their own thoughts" that I feel is the reason most people come to the conclusion that you did in your previous post.

When one comes to the conclusion that there is never a point when you're ever "in a body" to begin with, realization then hits like a truck. It's all just perception.

Hello

Add to this being able to hear someone elses thoughts and what is happening with them when they are experienceing that OBE state.

Being that I have had to learn everything in reverse when it comes to leaving the body, I find it so interesting how one's get there. When they get there how very honestly scary it is a times. I never had any of that, so much to me just was how it was. In some ways I feel blessed but too in other ways I feel like I missed the adventure in trying things.

Are we in a body I so struggle with this. Yes I can take me arm and I can pinch it and I feel that happen. There too though is a signal from that action happening to the brain . Does that prove I be physical ???

When I go to that place of Astral there are some that can see that shift in me, where a part of me is gone. I get fuzzy looking I am told or there is a huge white aura around me. Is this just one's that know of what I can do. I talked Sunday on Astral Travel and there was someone there that knew nothing of me and they came up to me later and asked what "magic" I used as I seemed to fade into a white cloud. What happens who knows, all I know is that I do feel me go.

If I can so freely think and go from the physical body, and I can see spirits as clearly and real as I see other living beings, I have to wonder on how physical we really are. We might well be able to shift the known forms of matter without understanding that just yet.

Lynn

(yes I am open to being called for my jacket to be put on and carried off )

[Kontufuto]

Further delineation is necessary for full grasp of the Astral world if you are going to know its not a dream or fabrication from within the mind. You have your perceptions and your senses but they do not define who you are. That in itself can be realized if in this world you grasp what you hear or what you smell or what you see. So do you see the car speeding down on the freeway or a Cashier opening the Register giving you change for your $20.00 bill? Most likely what you are perceiving is what others are able to see as well and that is called reality. Reality stems from the agreement you have with another or others. That makes it outside the fabrication of one's mind and postulates the existence of whatever you agree upon as it is actually in the here and now. That's what separates the crazy from the sane. That's what allows one to remain in society vs. being in a straight jacket. That's what allows a person to manage their lot in life in a manner conducive to living one's life without other's thinking you are imagining it inside your head where only you can substantiate its existence. You always want to get acknowledgement of your Astral with at least another so understanding can take place. Without it your mind may trick you into thinking otherwise. If you manifest this understanding on a group or society level then you can safely say that either your reality is sprung tight or sprung in such a hallucinatory manner that one may have to get 'outside oneself' to know the actual from the dream. It is on this level does one separate one from the other.

Further delineation is necessary for full grasp of the Astral world if you are going to know its not a dream or fabrication from within the mind.

It's a dream in which you are lucid.

Most likely what you are perceiving is what others are able to see as well and that is called reality. Reality stems from the agreement you have with another or others. That makes it outside the fabrication of one's mind and postulates the existence of whatever you agree upon as it is actually in the here and now.

Nah. Everything you perceive is a fabrication of the mind. Right now, your brain is interpreting what you sensory organs capture. For example, your eyes are not windows that you can look through and see what's on the outside.

What is going on there is more like a camera lens that captures light. This will excite and make neurons fire to produce the picture you see. The only reason you can agree will another that what is right in front of you is a candle is the fact that the other person also possesses a mental model of the existent object.

As Stephen LaBerge would say, it is all dreaming. When you are awake, your perception, as it were, is dreaming constrained by sensory input. When you are asleep, dreaming is perception unconstrained by sensory input. In other words, perception is dreaming true while dreaming is perception free.

That's what separates the crazy from the sane. That's what allows one to remain in society vs. being in a straight jacket. That's what allows a person to manage their lot in life in a manner conducive to living one's life without other's thinking you are imagining it inside your head where only you can substantiate its existence.

I disagree with your black and white stance there. I personally think religious fanatics are crazy. I also think that the people in that Big TOE forum are off their trolleys.

[Kontufuto]

^^^

ROTFLOMA!!!

But I do still like your Avatar!

Thank you.