how do you talk about mindfulness?

[sky]

[Originally Posted by Maisy
I pay attention purposely to what is not thought related. The now as it is without mind or thought interpreting it.]

So how can you pay attention to what is not thought?...

[sky]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Maisy……So how can you pay attention to what is not thought? How do you manage your days with no thought at all?
Just curious.

Isn't thought the process of using your mind to consider something ?
So if you decide to pay attention to what is 'not thought' your using thought to decide what thought is not thought, how do you know what thought is 'not thought' I'm even more confused

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

your using thought to decide

I would hope not. Ideally one would be using understanding and experience and awareness of what is both internally and externally. Thought is something we can be aware of not something that is us. If we can be aware of something, it means the thing is not us. We are the awareness aware of it. Thought is dependent on consciousness to exist. Consciousness is not dependent on thought to exist as Krishnamurti said. Which is amazing considering how much some turn their lives over to thought. But then we are probably designed to do just that. It sets up a reason to become more aware which may be the purpose of this life.

Originally Posted by sky

I'm even more confused

That's a thought "in the now" you are accepting as real which is optional. Of course now some time as passed so you attention is probably now on a different thought so the "reality" of feeling confused you had when you posted this thought as reality is gone. It no longer exists. (Unless you continue to focus and place your attention on the idea or thought and choose to accept it as reality. It is created reality or reality one makes using thought. Interpretive or conceptual reality that then actually becomes "physical" as the brain will release chemicals to make you "feel" the emotion or sensations based on the thought you are focusing your attention on and accepting as "reality." If a thought tells us we are confused or bored etc we don't have to accept that thought or the sensations and experience that comes with acceptance of the thought. But keeping the attention firmly established in thought is a habit that can be hard to break as the link I posted talked about. Neuron receptors will specialize in such I would guess so getting such things to change takes time and interest and awareness.

Some posters have added additional words and ideas to what I posted like "no thoughts at all." I'd say it doesn't matter if a billion thoughts are present or none if the attention is elsewhere. We have zero control over thoughts as it is the brain making them not us. The brain presents them to conscious awareness (us) and scientists have watched this happening in brain studies. Though studies in mindfulness have shown that if "mindfulness" is done "right" the brain slows down thought production or stops altogether. In other words, if one has no interest in thought, the brain stops producing it or slows down production.

Huángbò Xyùn wrote:
"Why do they not copy me by letting each thought pass as though it were nothing, or as though it were a piece of rotten wood, a stone, or the cold ashes of a dead fire?"

Huángbò Xyùn was an influential master of Zen Buddhism during the Tang dynasty.

[sky]

@Maisy.

You missed out some of what I wrote which was,

'Isn't thought the process of using your mind to consider something ?
So if you decide to pay attention to what is 'not thought' your using thought to decide what thought is not thought, how do you know what thought is 'not thought'

You only quoted,
your using thought to decide.

So how do you personally know what thought is not thought when you decide to pay attention to 'not thought' as you stated.....

[Gem]

My view is, it's better to stick to real things such as breath and body. The process is, intentionally examine the feeling of breathing, and when you notice you drifted away, you remember the breathing and resume where you left off. Thus you become aware of how you get swept away by the mind while having that anchor in reality to return to.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

The process is, intentionally examine the feeling of breathing, and when you notice you drifted away, you remember the breathing and resume where you left off. Thus you become aware of how you get swept away by the mind while having that anchor in reality to return to.

Yes all this talk about thoughts and mind, what is and what isn’t, etc, is not really a way to share with others who are not immersed in their body with full attention. If you’re stuck in your head about the topic, the feeling level of mindfulness won’t be felt. In most cases it simply overwhelms what is already. Not what is more complete.

The question in the OP was how to talk to others about this subject. People generally not in touch with their patterns and ways to move through things fast, really don’t need an over abundant wall of text or talking too much.

Your own practice, through this kind of attentiveness within yourself is as I see this enough to speak from that place.

Keeping it simple as you’ve described really presents the basics of it, the most important foundation for anyone. Everyone has the capacity to notice themselves if directed to themselves in this way, open and willing. You don’t need a heavy load of Buddhist principles and semantics drowning people deeper.

I think sometimes you can get so focused on ‘knowing’ too much, ‘that too much’ when speaking to others, about this topic, wouldn’t bridge understanding, it’s just filling the mind up with more. For someone ‘not aware’ of themselves, supporting them to be aware ( of themselves) seems to be a good first step.

One step at a time …

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

The question in the OP was how to talk to others about this subject. One step at a time …

In formal training they go step by step and talk about the stage the meditation is at. It starts with Buddhist formalities - taking refuge and sila vows - before the first instruction is given, so for me personally, I'd step back even further and talk about how you can at least have some faith that enlightenment is within you and nature will show you 'the way' if you trust her. A foundation of inner trust is a good platform to launch from, and it helps one release from the known.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

In formal training they go step by step..
Faith that enlightenment is within you and nature will show you 'the way' if you trust her. A foundation of inner trust is a good platform to launch from, and it helps one release from the known.

I’ve naturally witnessed myself in this way, not necessarily, in the order of Buddhist formalities, but certainly I see there is a natural unfolding and order within all of us if your open and trust of yourself. Yes trust in the unknown is often the most difficult aspect in all this. When people don’t know themselves in certain steps, it can be difficult and resistances can go up or they revert back to old patterns..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I’ve naturally witnessed myself in this way, not necessarily, in the order of Buddhist formalities, but certainly I see there is a natural unfolding and order within all of us if your open and trust of yourself. Yes trust in the unknown is often the most difficult aspect in all this. When people don’t know themselves in certain steps, it can be difficult and resistances can go up or they revert back to old patterns..

I think there is a natural progression insofar as spiritual purification goes, and that is universal for everyone. The Buddhists just defined it into clear categories of philosophy. Hence people who didn't train in a structured way, but went through stages, describe it in a way that translates into the Buddhist structure. It's not like Buddhists invented the way and prescribed it. They just noticed the way and described it as they saw it.

I personally can't see how the process can go all that far without a foundation in truthfulness and trust, so I'd probably talk about that to start with before discussing refinements in practice. I think most people want to jump immediately to the ultra-uber-high-spiritual because there's a desire for it and also a yearning to be perceived in some sort of way, but to me, I'm going with the Buddhist underpinnings of finding out what causes suffering and stop doing that, so my discussion will be more of less along those lines.

[Miss Hepburn]

Maisy: Some posters have added additional words and ideas to what I posted like
"We have zero control over thoughts as it is the brain making them not us.

My experience is we sure do have control. I've been practicing Thought Control during the day since 2007.
Then, for 50 years doing meditation...there sure is a state of 'no thought'...just witnessing, I suppose you could say...
just being 'aware' of Awareness Itself, with no thought. This is what is meant in Ps 46:10 -
''Be still and know that I am..'' - be still in your thoughts...and I must say, it is a stillness most can not imagine,
from my exp.
And yes, as gem has said - being aware of your breath.

For those that believe we can not have a 'no thought' state, we have this quote said by Kenneth Hagin, Sr., d. 2003:

Thoughts are like birds flying overhead. You can't control them,
but you certainly can control one not making a nest in your hair.