How can we be separate and one at the same time?!

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

What caught my attention was your closing question: "Ask yourself, what does God/Brahman get out of perceiving himself as not-God/not-Brahman?"

How else does God/Brahman get to experience Creation?

Oneness simply is. A point of separation is necessary to engage with Creation.

Peace

[Maisy]

"What does God/Brahman get out of perceiving himself as not-God/not-Brahman?" A piece of God is disillusioned not the whole. When that little piece wakes up, the whole God is smarter or greater, more! This takes a view of God as expanding though and not already the best God can be. Since the big bang, the entire universe is expanding so why would the source of it all, God, not be expanding as well?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Maisy

This takes a view of God as expanding though and not already the best God can be. Since the big bang, the entire universe is expanding so why would the source of it all, God, not be expanding as well?

This approach considers God as a relative Being, not an Absolute Being.

And I sometime wonder, is the entire universe expanding? We humans are only aware of a tiny fragment of the universe. Who can say what the rest of the universe is doing?

Peace

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by iamthat

How else does God/Brahman get to experience Creation?

Oneness simply is. A point of separation is necessary to engage with Creation.

Peace

Amen ! Exactly where I was going by repeating that question !

Originally Posted by Maisy

When that little piece wakes up, the whole God is smarter or greater, more! This takes a view of God as expanding though and not already the best God can be.

That assumes linear time, but yes. Since God is God he's both the little piece and the 'whole' God, he's both expanding and the best God can be.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

How can we be separate and yet we are one at the same time? Don't you guys experience this separation? And how is that possible if we are one?!

It's vibrational . The way sea water becomes white foam in tides , dust vapor in cloud , white snow in cold regions and fresh water spring elsewhere , the God too can be come one and many when viewed from varied lenses .
Humans too when sleep do simply exists but can not tell exactly what they did in sleep and what will be start and end time of sleep precisely on their own without an external aid. Humans too act and behave differently in different places/time and circumstances . That still does not make us claim he is separate because its the same form and spirit in all these situations/roles. Here the spirit is important . If that goes , people bury the form(body) in cemetery. Same way underlying spirit of God is permeating everywhere and is enduring and lasting making it one unending .

Feeling the oneness comes compulsorily at the time of sleep . Otherwise one simply can not sleep. However to feel oneness when awake is riddle God has kept intentionally for one to discover so that there is lot of fun, challenge, excitement , suspense which make few years of life on this planet livable and enjoyable. I agree its not easy to come by and that's where the beauty and ingenuity of the creation lies.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 28 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If you look at dream interpretation, it's about the 'translation' of pure consciousness into something the mind can understand.


What are we beyond thoughts, beliefs, knowledge, "A sense of I am?" Spirituality has it backwards.

As you duly noted, "as we've discussed before , there are other types of dreams", it is indeed true that there are various types of dreams. Some dreams need no interpretation as their meaning is quite obvious. Others ... arising from the subconscious/unconscious ... can be symbolic and require interpretation since their meaning is not so obvious. Still others are revelations which manifest in dream-life fashion. (These categories should suffice for purposes of discussion here though some may prefer other categorizations. Having practiced conscious sleep for years during which I studied the process of dream formation quite intensely, these categories work for me.)

You have raised an excellent point about "the 'translation' of pure consciousness into something the mind can understand". In its PUREST form (revelations), consciousness does indeed 'translate" the indescribable revelations into "something that the mind can understand". On the subject of revelations in dream-like form, I often refer to Kabbalistic Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan since his description of the process parallels my own understanding as well as what you wrote. To summarize briefly, Kaplan pointed out the "translation" steps:

1. Revelation happens and it cannot be expressed adequately in any way.

2. Using Kaplan's terminology, the revelation filters down to what he calls the pure intellect. (If one is not pure, distortions can happen at this level.)

3. The pure intellect than projects the filtered revelation in dream-like fashion to the imaginative faculty. (Once again, if one is not pure, further distortions can happen.)

4. Lastly, the receiving individual attempts to translate the experience into words that are clearly inadequate but the only thing available for those who require words. (Artists can sometimes communicate more effective with the proverbial "picture that is worth a thousand words". )

Hence, as you duly pointed out, "If you look at dream interpretation, it's about the 'translation' of pure consciousness into something the mind can understand." I agree with that point as described in the process above.

Even if it is a lower level dream from one's individual subconscious/unconscious, a similar process occurs as consciousness translates its message into a symbolic message that the mind can understand ... after, of course, the mind correctly interprets the symbology. (Sometimes, as in my own personal experiences, one is not receptive to hearing something about one's self and hence symbology is employed by our consciousness. )

Your last point is powerfully insightful: What are we beyond thoughts, beliefs, knowledge, "A sense of I am?" One does indeed attune to that "sense of I am" which is the gateway to what comes next.

NOTE: With those who can communicate telepathically, as with masters whom I've met throughout my life, words are not necessary and hence at least one level of inadequate communication is eliminated.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 36 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

God too can be come one and many when viewed from varied lenses .
Humans too when sleep do simply exists but can not tell exactly what they did in sleep

However to feel oneness when awake is riddle

Having practiced conscious sleep for years, one can watch dream formation in progress and understand to at least some degree how "God too can become one and many when viewed from varied lenses" as in a lucid dream. After all, various scriptures state that man is made in the image of God. ("As above, so below" is another way of expressing that.) One can also be aware during deep sleep as well.

In addressing your point about "to feel oneness when awake is riddle", one can observe the transition from the deep sleep state to the waking state and "feel that oneness" a bit longer ... and longer .. and longer.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 36 EXCERPT:

Having practiced conscious sleep for years, one can watch dream formation in progress and understand to at least some degree how "God too can become one and many when viewed from varied lenses" as in a lucid dream.

In addressing your point about "to feel oneness when awake is riddle"

Yes its riddle but solvable . With right attitude,effort and orientation and with grace of God it certainly can be resolve like what you have claimed.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Yes its riddle but solvable . With right attitude,effort and orientation and with grace of God it certainly can be resolve like what you have claimed.

Amen. I agree that the riddle is "solvable" in a way in accordance with you post.