Looking For Afterlife Evidence...

"Some dont have belief.. some have the knowledge!" I've made this point myself on many occasions. After a certain point what's learned and understood becomes one's knowledge. Belief no longer. It's a subtle difference in words but a HUGE change when experienced.

I have made that point to LDS missionaries on my doorstep who then tried to steal my words. They had answered that they they had total belief about what they were preaching whereas I countered by saying that I understood, that I knew, what I was telling them!

I wouldn't allow them to backtrack on the words they had used, no matter how they wriggled to get off that hook. I don't see any nowadays....

At one time they'd often come down our street and I would invite new ones in for a cuppa and a biscuit or a cold drink, depending on the weather. Mostly they were nice individuals. As my confidence grew I found I could challenge anything they said but without disclosing anything about me - they rarely asked anyway. But I stubbornly refused to allow them to use their books or quotations. I allowed only their own words, their own explanations - that mostly stopped 'em dead. They couldn't speak without using texts and memorised quotations. Highly revealing I found.

I've digressed....

I've had JWs come to my door and when I start rabbiting how all life is one, respect for animals, helping each other etc etc. You can see them going "hold on, that's interesting, he's got sommat there." I never tell 'em who/what I am. Quite funny really...
A huge change indeed Mac. As a human you wouldn't think it possible. But it is. Sometimes though I feel like I'd like to ditch it just for a day because with the knowledge comes the responsibility.

"Sometimes though I feel like I'd like to ditch it just for a day because with the knowledge comes the responsibility."

Never forget that freewill applies even to this.... Responsibility can only willingly be accepted but it can also be laid down.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by glenos

Great post Mac. Some dont have belief.. some have the knowledge! Proof enough over a period of time. Rock solid proof. I have, I know you have, and many more on SF have. I liken it thus.. imagine a building where everyone is. No windows, doors or anything. Some will believe that it rains outside because they were told by some one. Some will believe because they thought they may have heard it. And some will believe because they read it in a book by some one they trust. Then some person manages to actually get outside and stand in it. "Bluddy hell" they'd say, this stuff is real, I'm standing in it. They get the chance to go out in it more than once, dozens of times infact. They get back into the building and they tell the believers... and nine times out of ten the believers don't, cant, wont, believe that you have stood in the rain.. for real. They have to do it and find out for themselves.
Not a good analagy I know but hey.. it's the truth.. It is raining out there. Heavily.

G.

Why have I never seen a post of yours ----excellent example.
I'm using it from now on!

Originally Posted by deepsea

I am in a state of mind,to be honest,where one minute I believe and the next,I don't.
So much evidence that the mind tends to flutter back and forth between decisions like
'Do I accept that there is life after death or not?'

That is exactly the state I am in. There is so much information on both sides of the fence, I end up in the middle. I hope there to be life after death, but don't want to let that hope or wishful thinking to let me fool myself.

I have gone to extreme lengths to try and get some evidence that convinces -ME- one way or the other. I've even started attending church again (a UU church granted) in hopes of getting some kind of spiritual 'tap' on the shoulder or revelation/epiphany that will help me resolve this.

As for the rain analogy, here's mine: I live in a building with no windows, so I can't see what's going on outside. Everyone who tells me its raining never comes in wet or with an umbrella :P

That isn't meant to offend, just to illustrate how I feel. I certainly think people who believe or know are being honest, but something gave them that belief or knowledge. It gave it to -them- not -me- and until something comes along to change that, I can only be envious of their belief or knowledge.

Originally Posted by Scibat

...That I can believe in.

Long story short:

I am 41 and for all practical purposes an orphan, all of my immediate family have passed on, including a younger (13 year old) brother. Since the last death (my grandfather) I have been searching, fearing and tearing myself apart about the question of our continued existence beyond death.

I am less concerned if I face non-existence when I die, because if that is the case then I won't be aware of it anyway. But what bothers me, is the thought that all of my loved ones are just -gone- (barring my memories of them). Especially my brother, he got cancer at 10 and it took his life at 13, prior to that we lived in a semi-broken home rife with abuse.

It seems offensive to me that the universe would have him life a life like that then snuff him out of existence at 13. I have asked my friends and they have all had some personal experience (usually involving the passing of one of their loved ones) that provided them with evidence of the continued existence of those who have passed on. (Like sensing the presence of the loved one shortly after their death).

Me, I have soul searched, researched and even prayed for some kind of -experience- to happen to me that would offer me some comfort or closure in knowing he (my brother) is ok, along with the rest of my family. However I seem to be spiritually dead or something as I have had no experiences out of the ordinary, and certainly no messages or indications from my loved ones that they still exist somehow. I am science-minded by nature, but not a closed minded skeptic -- I need evidence, but once presented and able to be verified, I accept it.

So I am left in this state of permanent anxiety over the matter, and have been for some years. Some of the things I read make me think their could be an afterlife, but then there is just as much that leads me to think that such isn't possible. Forgive the rambling, I don't sleep well or a lot and this being typed during one of my bouts of insomnia, but if anyone has any thoughts, help or insights that might get me through this once and for all I would be eternally grateful.

the greatest evidence you can ever have, is if you ask your passed loved ones to come to you. You will know once they do. For some people who are less spiritually able, it's good to even just ask them to come visit you in your dreams before you go to sleep!
I am not aware that there is any evidence to these things, but once you experience it yourself, you will know that they are okay.

Hi Scibat,

I once was in a similar situation like you. I really wished to get proof of an afterlife but was quite doubtful. It would have seemed to wonderful to believe.
I started to read about different religions and got a little bit more believe. A few years later I had an NDE and got the confirmation of life after death. Then after a while some little doubts came back.
A few years on I met a woman during travelling and we decided to travel together for a week. Inner voices told me again and again that this woman was in great danger and they even told me some details of how she would die. The woman itself was healthy and there was nothing in the outside world that would have shown that there was an danger to her. After a week we split and she continued her travel. Three days later the newspapers reported her death. As details emerged she died under circumstances the inner voices had told me before.
Since then I had numerous experiences with the spiritual world and there is not the slightest doubt left in me anymore of life after death.
The point is that the spiritual world will give you proof but they decide when is the right time for you. For that it is helpful to be openminded and not too rational scientific orientated and to do selfhealing. As more clear we are in our emotional inner Self as more we get in touch with the spiritual world because emotional disturbances create dark layers that disturb the view of the spiritual realms.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Ciqala

the greatest evidence you can ever have, is if you ask your passed loved ones to come to you. You will know once they do. For some people who are less spiritually able, it's good to even just ask them to come visit you in your dreams before you go to sleep!
I am not aware that there is any evidence to these things, but once you experience it yourself, you will know that they are okay.

And remember, they can come and there will be a scent.
My Uncle comes around me and I get teary saying hi to him - he'll
make me smell the ocean - our link.



Soulsearcher13- "... it is helpful to be openminded and not too rational, scientific oriented and to do selfhealing. As the more clear we are in our emotional inner Self, the more we get in touch with the spiritual world because emotional disturbances create dark layers that disturb the view of the spiritual realms."
YES!

To us it seems like ages to get the evidence but please have patience, it will appear, and it'll change everything. Cor what a revelation, lucky you.


G.

"As for the rain analogy, here's mine: I live in a building with no windows, so I can't see what's going on outside. Everyone who tells me its raining never comes in wet or with an umbrella" :P Expressed brilliantly well although I wish it were otherwise for you. A friend from another website is in a similar position. His knowledge is second to few others and yet he has found no personal evidence.

You said "....but something gave them that belief or knowledge." and you are bang on. Often I've made the point that a key for the door is needed. Bereavement is often the key for others' doors and people often forget that's how their enlightenment began.

And I agree so strongly when you said "It gave it to -them- not -me- and until something comes along to change that, I can only be envious of their belief or knowledge."

From the way you've expressed yourself so well, Scibat, I realise that this doesn't help you and I confess I don't know how I could suggest for a direction that you haven't tried. I hope I haven't given you platitudes - I won't tell you how such and such may happen at some particular time. I don't know what will happen and neither do others - they're guessing based on their own experience which may have no relevance for you.

If I were to suggest one thing you might wish to consider, it might be to study the literature that has accumulated over many, many decades to see if anything has any appeal.

If you were to read what spiritually evolved teachers and guides have taught you might find a point of resonance. Maybe you'll be moved in a direction you didn't anticipate.

I can promise one thing - based on my experience, you will need to work at the task and put effort in to fully understand what you are learning. I send you my very best wishes.