'just be at peace'

[naturesflow]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

The details of how the response unfolds follow unconscious responses based on the most subtle linkages through multiple channels of rapid, unconscious communications between two brains “across the social synapse”, so I understand. Also relies on the emotional sensitivity of the compassionate person which seems to be developed very early in life. Current thinking is that the brain is a social organ that reacts to its owner's environment including people - something with which someone interested in communication can sympathise.

There's a good deal of research on emotional mimicry and contagion, probably best shown in that, say, the facial expression of person A expressing an emotion will (unless deliberately controlled) be mimicked by the listener, B. More to the point, while they may not share a common experience, the same circuitry appears to be active in both brains. Like a person crying without saying why will invoke a similar cortical responses in the listener. It's something that can be observed superficially at least.

Unfortunately it's postulated that people's emotional sensitivity is a product of their earliest development. The less caring, neglectful nurturing yields the most sensitive people. Seems a bit of a generalisation but it has been the subject of research. A mother's emotional state is transferred to the infant (Haviland and Lelica). The more empathetic a person is depends on emotional sensitivity it seems. Almost all the brain is involved calling on experiences and triggering motor responses through the somatosensory part of the parietal lobe....not forgetting the (parasympathietic) vagal nerve that reglates autonomous changes fired by the sympathetic nervous system.

There's a great deal of sharing thanks to the social brain.

Is it ok to leave it there?
I don't know if I've made sense - that would be a first!

Everything your sharing makes perfect sense Lorelyen. We are an interconnected, intricate little matrix in this body, working in so many ways of our physical, emotional and spiritual connection.
My mother was pregnant with me, when she lost both parents three weeks apart. At that time she already had six children and was forty years old. I noticed through my healing process, I had a five year period where I cried non stop through the unknown of myself, unaware of what I was releasing. In the unfolding of clarity over time, learning of her journey and process and my own, and many of those interconnected weaves that played out for me, I realized I carried a lot of her unexpressed emotional containment, which of course came through the timing of my birth and the little matrix I was born as.... Gosh I wont even start on my father or seven siblings and where that led me and what I discovered of myself through all them...

In the intricacies of our humanness and spiritual nature Lorelyen, perhaps there are levels of peace we can attain, through life and experiences, ongoing. I am a conscious self reflector and look very closely at my non reactive and reactive state when life is happening all around me and within me. When I am reactive in any way now, I have the capabilities to notice myself more aware of what is moving in me and what seeks to be moved deeper into peace in myself. I don't need to consciously be on to it, my body is open and connected in such a way where it moves me deeper more naturally to a more centred peaceful presence and awareness of what moves me from there.. Often I notice things like my creativity, emotional body, joyful loving self arises from this place more naturally and with more flow and ability to retain it... So I kind of look at this as my true self, something beyond my human suffering/conditioned state where the world and others created me. One where I am more in harmony with myself through the whole open stream of myself that I am always getting to know more closely as life goes on... So much comes into play, for every individual and there life as it is. But I suspect the modelling in everyway life is, becomes a seed of potential, as new seeds are planted and nurtured in some way, regardless of what already has been planted and created.

"rewiring of the brain" - that's a whole other topic but..

Um... what brain is that, dear naturesflow? It looks more like a dish of macaroni cheese. I put some cayenne on my head to warm it up a bit but it didn't work... Oh, woe is me....


♥

At least you have a brain Lorelyen, my brain turned to mush a long time ago. (peas and mash maybe?) Nothing like a late night feast where you tap into your brain to feed yourself when hungry, but then does that mean your feeding your brain? Gosh it all seems to feed on itself ...who nose's these things Lorelyen?

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by happy soul

Eckhart Tolle says that 'peace is our essential nature'.

Consciousness itself yes, but then a consciousness identified and merged with the human animal mind will experience that as "self." So peace only when the animal mind is still. In those moments consciousness rises to the surface and the animal mind fades into the background.

Originally Posted by happy soul

Here's the problem. WE LIKE DRAMA, CONFLICT, AND PROBLEMS. U.G. Krishnamurti says that we love problems, and if we don't have one, we'll CREATE one.

I would not say we love drama and conflict but it serves it's purpose to move the attention away from a particular corner of the mind and help one feel one has some control. It's extremely addictive because of the flood of mood altering chemicals and emotions that accompanies it.

Obviously it leads to really bad stuff and the "spiritual" way to free oneself from the noise in our heads is better. There are thousands of ways a human can find escapes from the internal noise within oneself and I'd say conflict, strong negative emotions, is one of the worse ones.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

From what we seem to know, whatever from experience is drawn on depends on the encounter. We won't have anything to analyse and decide on until the material is in conscious awareness.

Ta!

♥

So I'm not that brain science savvy. But would your explanation imply that we have a choice in what comes to our conscious awareness?

Because in that case I would agree.
Exactly that choice would be called(by me anyway) free will.
And it would allow for the ability to change your behavior based on what you would allow to come to conscious awareness.

With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by naturesflow

At least you have a brain Lorelyen,

I wouldn't be too sure about that!

But I have to say, this ingress into neurophysiology has forced me to admit I've been a bit wrong - or may have been, and have to stand corrected. Enough of a shock that I have to sit down corrected. LOL.

Until now I've believed that we own our emotions. We can't blame anyone else for them. How we react is simply how we react, good or bad. But now, the idea of emotional contagion questions such a firm conclusion.

If A's emotions "infect" B, is B entirely responsible for their ongoing emotions?

So, in a moment of sincerity A tells B he loves her, it's obviously going to "cross the social synapse". B picks up the signals (which would be more than just words) and similar circuits in B's brain are activated. ....At a later stage A withdraws (perhaps after much reinforcement of the love thing) then B is left with all the experiential stuff initiated by A.

B may well be upset. The connection has been torn apart. So, is B's misery and hurt really her responsibility alone? I begin to wonder.
She still has the wiring of an attachment in her brain - her experiences. They were put there by the action of A.

So, clinical as it may seem, the neuro stuff is making me rethink a deeply held belief. Were I a therapist I'd have been wrong and would now have to change tactics to acknowledging what's going on and work out ways how to decommission the client's experiences.

Food for the brain? Maybe!

♥

[Gem]

Originally Posted by happy soul

We've all heard the teaching 'just be', and maybe 'just be aware'. I've been contemplating the idea 'just be at peace' for a while.

It seems pretty easy to do, UNLESS you're upset in some way. Eckhart Tolle says that 'peace is our essential nature'. It can therefore be natural and effortless to just be at peace.

The teaching to 'rest in peace' is similar, and is definitely not merely a prayer for the dead, but an important approach to life and to one's moment to moment experience.

Here's the problem. WE LIKE DRAMA, CONFLICT, AND PROBLEMS.

U.G. Krishnamurti says that we love problems, and if we don't have one, we'll CREATE one.

It's like (and this may not apply to everyone, but it does to most people) we don't really, really and truly, WANT to be at peace.

If we can see this in ourselves, if we can recognize how we don't really want peace, maybe we can overcome it. If we practice the teaching to 'just be at peace', our tendency to AVOID peace will reveal itself, and then we can deal with that tendency - we can let it go.

We have to be willing.

Well said, and good points.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Interesting, because quite honestly if "Eckhart Tolle says that 'peace is our essential nature'.", then Ekhart Tolle has got it wrong.

It may be an essential aim but as essential nature it's too highly questionable. It would be stasis, a point at which 'experiencing' stops - because a) there's no need for further experiencing as there would be no further unknowns; b) what's around us doesn't stand still. One person's peace isn't another's which may be in conflict with ours unless we all reach a state of entropy in which nothing matters any longer; c) we'd have to assume every environment we enter brings no conflict thus nothing to resolve; and d) those who like a challenge (which could be seen as an arm of spiritual growth) will have to disturb their status quo to find it- or if thrown at them, are ready to meet it.

We can enjoy moments of peace; we have the capacity to be peaceful (could even be 'content') but that doesn't make it 'essential nature' which is to me balance and steady state... I am not unpeaceful most of the time because I make continual adjustments and put up with non-peace, just as one factor: having to work to earn to survive.

As I see it, anyway. But this is all too early. I need a bit of brekkies before going to zumba which will bring joy, exhilaration... but that isn't peace.
Mr Tolle needs to rethink his premise... he needs to be Tolled off!

Teehee .

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

It's ok, I asked if you had better factual evidence to support your view.
You would have saved typing just to say "no."
I'm oft times disappointed when a chance to broaden a horizon slips away.

I'm never content with my explanation when it must be so very brief and omit so much.

(I erased a question about one of your statements. Probably best to let it rest here.)

♥

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!"

H.Simpson - beer drinker & slob

These days the truth is wherever you want to find it, and it’s something that can be shaped to meet your own ends.

[Gem]

[quote=naturesflow]

Everything your sharing makes perfect sense Lorelyen. We are an interconnected, intricate little matrix in this body, working in so many ways of our physical, emotional and spiritual connection.
My mother was pregnant with me, when she lost both parents three weeks apart. At that time she already had six children and was forty years old. I noticed through my healing process, I had a five year period where I cried non stop through the unknown of myself, unaware of what I was releasing. In the unfolding of clarity over time, learning of her journey and process and my own, and many of those interconnected weaves that played out for me, I realized I carried a lot of her unexpressed emotional containment, which of course came through the timing of my birth and the little matrix I was born as.... Gosh I wont even start on my father or seven siblings and where that led me and what I discovered of myself through all them...

In the intricacies of our humanness and spiritual nature Lorelyen, perhaps there are levels of peace we can attain, through life and experiences, ongoing. I am a conscious self reflector and look very closely at my non reactive and reactive state when life is happening all around me and within me. When I am reactive in any way now, I have the capabilities to notice myself more aware of what is moving in me and what seeks to be moved deeper into peace in myself. I don't need to consciously be on to it, my body is open and connected in such a way where it moves me deeper more naturally to a more centred peaceful presence and awareness of what moves me from there.. Often I notice things like my creativity, emotional body, joyful loving self arises from this place more naturally and with more flow and ability to retain it... So I kind of look at this as my true self, something beyond my human suffering/conditioned state where the world and others created me. One where I am more in harmony with myself through the whole open stream of myself that I am always getting to know more closely as life goes on... So much comes into play, for every individual and there life as it is. But I suspect the modelling in everyway life is, becomes a seed of potential, as new seeds are planted and nurtured in some way, regardless of what already has been planted and created.

"rewiring of the brain" - that's a whole other topic but..





At least you have a brain Lorelyen, my brain turned to mush a long time ago. (peas and mash maybe?) Nothing like a late night feast where you tap into your brain to feed yourself when hungry, but then does that mean your feeding your brain? Gosh it all seems to feed on itself ...who nose's these things Lorelyen?

You guys are making the zombies hungry.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I wouldn't be too sure about that!

But I have to say, this ingress into neurophysiology has forced me to admit I've been a bit wrong - or may have been, and have to stand corrected. Enough of a shock that I have to sit down corrected. LOL.

Until now I've believed that we own our emotions. We can't blame anyone else for them. How we react is simply how we react, good or bad. But now, the idea of emotional contagion questions such a firm conclusion.

If A's emotions "infect" B, is B entirely responsible for their ongoing emotions?

So, in a moment of sincerity A tells B he loves her, it's obviously going to "cross the social synapse". B picks up the signals (which would be more than just words) and similar circuits in B's brain are activated. ....At a later stage A withdraws (perhaps after much reinforcement of the love thing) then B is left with all the experiential stuff initiated by A.

B may well be upset. The connection has been torn apart. So, is B's misery and hurt really her responsibility alone? I begin to wonder.
She still has the wiring of an attachment in her brain - her experiences. They were put there by the action of A.

So, clinical as it may seem, the neuro stuff is making me rethink a deeply held belief. Were I a therapist I'd have been wrong and would now have to change tactics to acknowledging what's going on and work out ways how to decommission the client's experiences.

Food for the brain? Maybe!

♥

I'm from the social work angle which takes the 'big picture' approach in that a 'person' exists as an intersection with their environment. Basically, persons are sited as effecting, while being affected by, socio-environmental conditions.

Originally Posted by Raziel

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!"

H.Simpson - beer drinker & slob

These days the truth is wherever you want to find it, and it’s something that can be shaped to meet your own ends.

Ah well, yes, everything is meaningless but some meaninglesses are more meaningless than others. A factoid, a speculation proposed as a fact is more meaningless than a fact. (Harry Stotle)

All I wondered was whether the person I quoted who asserted and emphasised no less that peace is the essential human nature could elucidate how s/he arrived at such a conclusion because I couldn't agree. As meaningless statements go, that one took the biscuit, probably a Rich Tea - low dunking coefficient.

Still, it was good typing practice.