How devoted are you to your beliefs?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Do you think you and/or others should have some basis for what they believe, or is it pretty much anything goes, we can believe whatever we want no matter what science or facts may indicate?

Why is it, and/or how is it, that some people can become so devoted to beliefs that to the rest of us seem so patently ridiculous against the "facts" that we generally seem to agree on? Answers with a psychological bent get extra Karma points on this last one.

The phenom (which it strikes me is 'visible' in 75 to 95% of folks at least!) is 'explained' (I believe - lol!) by the following articles:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-pigeons-...itious-5746904

https://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Skinner/Pigeon/

----

My own 'parable' in this regard: Two guys playing golf when the sky turns cloudy and a lightning bolt strikes one dead. The 'living one' become 'convinced' that his 'god' loves him and was (powerfully!) instrumental in preserving his life. He becomes so 'dependent' on such a thought to help him resolve his own existential anxieties that will aim to eliminate you from his field of vision if you try to convince him otherwise (or 'threaten' his belief-system by yourself thinking otherwise)! Hence also the tendency to persist in thinking that what one believes is 'right' being stronger in humans than 'dumb' animals. (Pigeons are relatively 'clever' animals, BTW!)

[ocean breeze]

Looking through a person's post history can give you a good indication of how devoted they are to their beliefs. The threads they create as well as the arguments for or against.

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

Looking through a person's post history can give you a good indication of how devoted they are to their beliefs. The threads they create as well as the arguments for or against.

My attention span is way too short for that..... I think I must have ADD, it's going around ya know. Has something to do with twitter and I phones.
What was I talking about again?

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by ketzer

My attention span is way too short for that..... I think I must have ADD, it's going around ya know. Has something to do with twitter and I phones.
What was I talking about again?

We are similar in that. I'm ADD as well. Hence i have a hard time reading lengthily posts. I don't read people's post history often myself. I simply observe and remember.

It’s also easy to see how devoted people are to their beliefs by the way this thread has progressed from the simple question of “how devoted are you to your beliefs?”

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by BlackfoxNZ

It’s also easy to see how devoted people are to their beliefs by the way this thread has progressed from the simple question of “how devoted are you to your beliefs?”

I was only thinking about this yesterday, after I made the comments about Tibetan Tantra and then went on to read all the other replies to my post in this thread here, after I made it. There were so many replies here that I am so overwhelmed.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I was only thinking about this yesterday, after I made the comments about Tibetan Tantra and then went on to read all the other replies to my post in this thread here, after I made it. There were so many replies here that I am so overwhelmed.

And that has allowed for some very interesting observations to be made, it seems that many people feel the need to validate their beliefs even when they are not directly being questioned which is odd but interesting and insightful,
Also noticed there seems to be a trend emerging that shows people are more and more trying to chase pleasure rather than knowledge, pleasure comes in many forms and what I mean by it is people are going for feeling part of a group/tribe/family when beliefing in and being a apart of a religion or group view, loved valued base on their beliefs( which just shows massive insecurities)
Whereas choosing to not believe in things and viewing things just by viewing without judgement which is the opposite of what most are doing here, allows for a greater understanding and knowledge,
And for those who will say love is the most important thing, is it love for someone/something or the idea of being loved you are chasing and seeking so badly, as knowledge does not come with love or pleasure or hate or pain it’s just knowing things without a emotional bases
I look forward to the responses to this^

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by BlackfoxNZ

And that has allowed for some very interesting observations to be made, it seems that many people feel the need to validate their beliefs even when they are not directly being questioned which is odd but interesting and insightful,
Also noticed there seems to be a trend emerging that shows people are more and more trying to chase pleasure rather than knowledge, pleasure comes in many forms and what I mean by it is people are going for feeling part of a group/tribe/family when beliefing in and being a apart of a religion or group view, loved valued base on their beliefs( which just shows massive insecurities)
Whereas choosing to not believe in things and viewing things just by viewing without judgement which is the opposite of what most are doing here, allows for a greater understanding and knowledge,
And for those who will say love is the most important thing, is it love for someone/something or the idea of being loved you are chasing and seeking so badly, as knowledge does not come with love or pleasure or hate or pain it’s just knowing things without a emotional bases
I look forward to the responses to this^

Astute, I say, astute!

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by BlackfoxNZ

And that has allowed for some very interesting observations to be made, it seems that many people feel the need to validate their beliefs even when they are not directly being questioned which is odd but interesting and insightful,
Also noticed there seems to be a trend emerging that shows people are more and more trying to chase pleasure rather than knowledge, pleasure comes in many forms and what I mean by it is people are going for feeling part of a group/tribe/family when beliefing in and being a apart of a religion or group view, loved valued base on their beliefs( which just shows massive insecurities)
Whereas choosing to not believe in things and viewing things just by viewing without judgement which is the opposite of what most are doing here, allows for a greater understanding and knowledge,
And for those who will say love is the most important thing, is it love for someone/something or the idea of being loved you are chasing and seeking so badly, as knowledge does not come with love or pleasure or hate or pain it’s just knowing things without a emotional bases
I look forward to the responses to this^

What I personally feel about this, only goes to highlight the lack of discernment or discretion when sharing beliefs and experiences.. and the judgmental fallout from repeated bad choices.

For example, one simply does not even TRY to teach Quantum Physics to kindergarten students...however, that doesn't stop us.. and yet we wonder why we are not understood when that should be blatantly obvious...."tough crowd".

We haven't learned yet to get into the sandbox, take one grain of sand in our hand and say to the 4yr old "I wonder how many grains of sand there are just like this one in the whole sandbox?"

What I feel, is that beliefs are personal...even existential knowledge or gnosis is personal, because if God/Source/Flying Spaghetti Monster wanted everybody to be enlightened, they WOULD be...so therefore, any "belief" must also include the disclaimer "do not expect others to be at the same level of spiritual growth that you are".

So, if one wants to discuss Quantum Physics, they go to the Physics department at a University.

If one wants to discuss Hinduism, they go to Sanatana Dharma forums, where you may have a better chance of finding others who can understand what you are talking about.

If one wants to talk about Lord Shiva, they either go to their local Shiva Temple, or there are about a hundred dedicated groups on Facebook to join...they don't go to a Christian forum..but that doesn't stop some of us..

The art of "Online Forums" is a dying thing anyway with the introduction of Social Media where select groups of "like minded individuals who want to find those who share similar interests and beliefs and talk about them" can be easily located.

...and if you want to talk about crystals, fairies, twin flames, tarot cards, mediumship, angels and vegetarianism, SF is the PERFECT place to be!

Some people just take a while to be convinced they are totally in the "wrong place", even if others ignore/avoid them to give them the subtle hint that it would require a sledgehammer to get through or even a simple "do you really think you BELONG here? look within and ask yourself that question".

Maybe it shows massive insecurities, but can you show me ONE human being who does not have these? and Jesus or Buddha don't count. LOL

However, without the need to feel a "part of something bigger than oneself" (and God doesn't count either), "Soul Families" or "Tribes" wouldn't exist in the first place and there is no use staying in a tribe if it is going to limit or not acknowledge freedom of expression or provide the right environment conducive to the unfolding of the beautiful flower that is one's Divine heart or "true nature".

Certain people learn and grow through conflict and diversity, others learn and grow through acceptance and love and there is no "reason" why it happens...it just does.

That is my response.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Certain people learn and grow through conflict and diversity, others learn and grow through acceptance and love and there is no "reason" why it happens...it just does.

One possibility is left out of the picture here, methinks: some who (for some 'reason') stubbornly choose to remain as they presently are - that is, to not learn and grow (to become something 'greater' or 'more') at all - either through conflicts, adversity, etc. or through acceptance, love, etc.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

That is my response.

Indeed, it is.

From my treatise:

"To the degree that, as a result of continuing to mentally and emotionally process our personal experiences, we become aware of ( i.e. consciously ‘awaken’ to) the fact that all our lives are (in other words, all Life is) basically coextant, the ‘sense’ we have of our own ‘i’dentity expands to become other-inclusive. And, as we then realize that just focusing on things by and for the benefit of our ‘own’ selves simply results in our (delusionally!) living in personally ‘i’solating thought-and-feeling ‘bubbles’, we may (logically then) choose to transcend (i.e., rise ‘above’ and evolve ‘beyond’) the limitations of whatever self*ish perceptions and tendencies at that point, as a result of past personal and social conditioning, continue to ‘govern’ and (so, in effect) ‘imprison’ us, and then more and more ‘freely’ grow to become more and more loving and enjoying of our ‘neighbors’ as our ‘selves’ (as advocated in Mark 12:31) in ever-widening, more and more Life‑embracing circles, and therefore and thereby (in due course) fully execute our innate Source-code ‘program’ to maximally experience and express Love and Joy in relationship to and with others. This, instead of just partially doing so by way of continuing to operate as the same ‘old’ ego‑‘i’dentity configurations focused on reaping and dispensing whatever Love and Joy ‘perks’ we (as a result of prior personal conditioning) happen to at any given point especially value in relation to particular others, for however long we may continue to live (as such☺ that is!)."