Will I say the same things again?

Sorry it did not impress.
That said I am happy for you how your practise provides you with clear experiences.

Mine do to. And my recent bow towards Hinduism and ritualistic worship of the divine serves a similar foundation for the kind of clarity you talk about. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't however expect people who experienced this love or clarity or insight or whatjamaycallit. To behave differently on an open forum just because I experienced a glimpse of what may be so. That expectation is fabrication.

With Love
Eelco

[sky]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Here's a link pertaining a view.
Ex-nun writes of life under Mother Teresa

With Love
Eelco

I am agreeing with you thats why I say, practice for some is very different to instructions.

Originally Posted by sky123

I am agreeing with you thats why I say, practice for some is very different to instructions.

Thank you. I knew you did.
I thought about saying your comment on my statement was explanation enough, but figured I throw in a sample for good measure and clarity.

With love
Eelco

[Gem]

When it comes to Buddhas Noble Truths attention is drawn to the condition ourselves are in. Having looked into that and finding out what is true in that regard, it continues to find the cause of one's troubles; discovering the ways one generates their own distress as one may cease such generation to affect greater happiness.


The way it is framed in the Buddhist text: 8 aspects form the path to impress upon us the deeper sense of 'right'. As a broadly covering term it has very nuanced meaning with virtuous connotations, but I like to run a looser flow going into the subliminal underpinnings in its real life way. I think somehow people have already a deep intuition of right which pervades doing of good things rather than bad, which forms a broader scope to the earlier mentioned metta/sila/refuge triage. As worded 'right action' - the octagon path branches together as a unified shape.


My word, that could be a lengthy discussion inspired by touching the life that brings meaning to the said. From inside it is known, rising, as worded, 'right understanding', and in similar ways 8 references truth internal as deeper understandings clarify.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Samana

I get the impression the moral vows you speak of are probably "The Five Precepts" which many Buddhists usually take formally after having taken Refuge.

Yes, exactly, and I figure interested people can google things and those of more vague interest won't, and try to speak from the real life perspective rather than the textual.

Here are the Five Precepts:


1. I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.

2. I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.

3. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.

4. I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.

5. I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/...pancasila.html


Here also is a transcript of an excellent talk about Buddhist Refuge which was given by Ven. Ajahn Sumedho, a senior teacher with the Theravada Thai Forest Tradition:

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma2/bds.html


May all sentient beings have peace and happiness _/|\_


.

OK. Interesting, I'll go have a look.


... an excellent passage on refuge - well worded.

[Rain95]

That's an interesting idea.... what do you actually do, not what do you say or write you do (or are doing to state it more accurately as all that actually exists is now) , . Then applying a bit of Zen, or selflessness, what do you do if you recognize and simultaneously realize the goal of being without a doer?

Really one does not do it, being selfless, as that contradicts the whole thing and asserts a doer or self, the conceptual image stated as the doer. The point being no self, no doer, which is not about not being there, (or here more accurately) it's about what you are here as...but then here one can state it better as what are you here as not....

Because no concept..... the wait there at the end of that sentence....what I am here as....____________ There is no word that can be put there if you are selfless and awake. Words and concepts are recognized for what they are... ghosts that disappear in the light. In the present moment, words and concepts are simply overlays of belief on reality which serve no real purpose as far as one finding their way to a more enlightened and aware state of being. All of that is discarded.

So what am I actually doing?.... I am not doing. By doing nothing at all, I am doing everything necessary. I am that silence that exists between thoughts, between concepts, between ideas. But a lot of energy is expended to do nothing, and there is no one there to do or not do.... what is being done is a certain kind of awareness, a presence in the non-conceptual reality, like holding ones head out of the water in a swimming pool.....it takes an effort, but not a doer, not a self.... it is merely being awake to what is, and what is is no longer defined or solidified by thought and concepts.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

I am agreeing with you thats why I say, practice for some is very different to instructions.

It seems to me that when you read the post in which I said 'instruction' you have honed in the word, though I don't know why exactly, but this is how I explain it. On retreat the teacher would say, 'watch breathing' etc. which is instruction, but since more elaborate explanation is given, the instruction is not one obeyed, but one agreed to because it's sensible and reasonable. If something is unclear in the practice, then students talk privately with the teacher about the finer points and receive sound guidance which is more in the form of advice.


In the texts there is 'right meditation' which everyone is trying to master, but it's more like a continual refinement than a stone solid 'right way', and in all instances it's 'your' path and no one can walk it for you. What that basically means is you have to determine where you go, which is why the full explanation is necessary for informed consent, and why obedience is fruitless. However, analogously, there is a right way to deadlift which enables one to lift the most weight, and perfecting that technique is a constant work of refinement.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

It seems to me that when you read the post in which I said 'instruction' you have honed in the word, though I don't know why exactly, but this is how I explain it. On retreat the teacher would say, 'watch breathing' etc. which is instruction, but since more elaborate explanation is given, the instruction is not one obeyed, but one agreed to because it's sensible and reasonable. If something is unclear in the practice, then students talk privately with the teacher about the finer points and receive sound guidance which is more in the form of advice.


In the texts there is 'right meditation' which everyone is trying to master, but it's more like a continual refinement than a stone solid 'right way', and in all instances it's 'your' path and no one can walk it for you. What that basically means is you have to determine where you go, which is why the full explanation is necessary for informed consent, and why obedience is fruitless. However, analogously, there is a right way to deadlift which enables one to lift the most weight, and perfecting that technique is a constant work of refinement.

As I have said previously, to me instructions are very different to advice. I have been given instructions in a Sangha which totally went against the practice of Buddhism. I see instructions as a polite word for ' order ' you are expected to follow the instructions, with advice it's a choice. I personally see Buddha's teachings as a guide book not an instruction manual.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

As I have said previously, to me instructions are very different to advice.



I have been given instructions in a Sangha which totally went against the practice of Buddhism. I see instructions as a polite word for ' order ' you are expected to follow the instructions, with advice it's a choice. I personally see Buddha's teachings as a guide book not an instruction manual.

That makes sense - with advice its a choice - but it's quite involved because there different aspects to choices. There is an advice choice where someone suggests an idea and you decide to do it or not, and there's informed choices where one discerns based on what they know or understand. Where teaching meditation is concerned of course there are meditation instructions, watch breath etc. It would be uncommon to refer to that as 'advice'. Either way, instruction or advice, of course you have the choice to do it or not. When an instruction is given such as, observe breath, that could be followed in obedience (which is is choice, albeit entirely unimformed) or it could be explained why we watch the breath so the person understands the reasons why, and if understanding it somewhat a person decides to give it a go, that's a slightly different sort of choice.


The first time I formally took refuge, they explained the whole thing very deeply, much along the lines of Samana's article, so I knew what I was doing when I warily agreed to take half-hearted refuge. After that I knew it in deeper, more nuanced ways as part of the real life integration.

Originally Posted by sky123

As I have said previously, to me instructions are very different to advice. I have been given instructions in a Sangha which totally went against the practice of Buddhism. I see instructions as a polite word for ' order ' you are expected to follow the instructions, with advice it's a choice. I personally see Buddha's teachings as a guide book not an instruction manual.

I tend to think about it in yet another way.
Some sutta's read to me like a recepy. Start here, balance these qualities, burn through these kammas and realize truth as a result. Other sutta's are more like guidance offered in a way one can make a choice based on a similar or story with which helps clarify certain difficulties. One has the freedom to choose whether such a story applies to real life events that currently take place.

In my experience what to do or how to act in certain situations is anything but clear.

Introspection in these matters often clarify one's own feelings and thoughts about the matter, but don't always provide an answer. Only the flow of life makes clear in retrospect what had to pass.

With Love
Eelco