What can you tell me about the Astral war?

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

So if you experience an astral war, that proves it true?

Remember, you're not experiencing an OBJECTIVE war. You're experiencing an objective experience subjectively.

If you happen upon a "war-like" scene, ask yourself (or anyone around you at the time) why you're there. You might be surprised of the response.

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

In all seriousness.. I don't really agree with that statement. I remember when the whole, "prove things to yourself through your own experience," idea was pretty much in its infancy.. But now, it has taken on a cosmic absolute of its own.

If this statement is true, then there is nothing real or for sure in the universe. To some cancer may kill, to others it may be a happy little party with a few naughty little cells. To another person, a tree is God, to another, it's the devil. We can't know anything for sure because the ideas and even the law is different depending on everyone's personal experience. In some cases and with some things that is true... But when we use it as a blanket theology for everything, we are just dumbing ourselves down to the degree that no one can speak with any certainty about anything...

Is the grass green or is it purple? Do roses attack people in the astral world or are they singing flowers that love everyone?

It's a very nice way to build confusion, let all people live with their own delusions and makes a wonderful excuse for never blaming anyone for doing something that hurts another or breaks the law in a destructive way... After all, it's all based on personal experience and it may not have been wrong to the offender.... There are no absolutes so just turn a blind eye and know that we all know nothing except what has been shown by personal experience in our own micro-self absorbed universe.

Rubbish I say.

And blue could be red... and up could be south...

I can't really convince you that what I say is the truth... I can't even convince you that what you say is the truth.

Just... hold off on judging things until *YOU* personally have the experience and evidence to support it. :)

Originally Posted by Xanth

Oh god... I'd read that, but my eyes bled due to the wall of text. >_<
I wish people would use proper grammar. I can't take a person serious if they can't take the time to put their words into a manner which demand "READ ME"... instead of "IGNORE ME CAUSE I'M TOO LAZY TO TYPE PROPERLY".

Hi Xanth, yes I agree Katz doesn't seem to have discovered paragraph concept....her book I have is great though and I guess had a good editor! Nonetheless her post was quite interesting to me anyway. The way I read massive blocks of text is I just highlight paragraph sized pieces at a time.

[GentleStrength]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

So if you experience an astral war, that proves it true?

Absolutely. Reality and truth are entirely based on personal experience and the beliefs about reality that you have. If you astral project and experience an astral war then that is your reality and your truth. If someone else travels astrally and has no experience with any kind of war then that is their reality and THEIR truth. Both real, both true and neither actually a contradiction of the other. Reality = Perception.

I believe that the astral plane can have conflict and discord but overall it is of a higher vibration and so unconditional love, harmony and joy are much more common than negativity. I do not expect anyone to believe this just because it is my reality and I will not invalidate their beliefs if they experience something different than I do. Hopefully they can give me that same respect.

Love and Light

I roll my eyes at the notion of individual truths. All I have as an individual is beliefs based on experience and relative facts. I'm not about to assume anything is truth because I want it to be. Why? Because we are all consciousness. We all have experience, we all have thoughts, we all have similar anatomy, we're all held to moral, legal, and physical laws. Objectivity does exist, so objective truth is the only relevant "truth" worth debating. We all have unique paths, true... up the same mountain. To believe any different would, by logic, lead one to solopsism. What matters is the nature of the mountain... finding the nuggets of objectivity in a sea of subjectivity despite the potential that this isn't entirely possible.

Originally Posted by GentleStrength

Absolutely. Reality and truth are entirely based on personal experience and the beliefs about reality that you have. If you astral project and experience an astral war then that is your reality and your truth. If someone else travels astrally and has no experience with any kind of war then that is their reality and THEIR truth. Both real, both true and neither actually a contradiction of the other. Reality = Perception.

Your example is flawed. Two people having different experiences in the astral is down to the astral being such a vast place. What that means is one person has been in a location(s) with war-like themes, and another person has not. None of this simplistic absolutist "the astral is a place of war/peace" stuff is necessary.

[GentleStrength]

Originally Posted by Just One

I roll my eyes at the notion of individual truths. All I have as an individual is beliefs based on experience and relative facts. I'm not about to assume anything is truth because I want it to be. Why? Because we are all consciousness. We all have experience, we all have thoughts, we all have similar anatomy, we're all held to moral, legal, and physical laws. Objectivity does exist, so objective truth is the only relevant "truth" worth debating. We all have unique paths, true... up the same mountain. To believe any different would, by logic, lead one to solopsism. What matters is the nature of the mountain... finding the nuggets of objectivity in a sea of subjectivity despite the potential that this isn't entirely possible.

Objective reality has no inherent meaning, it is just the prop for individual and collective consciousness to "create" meaning through their belief systems. We could both see the same objective reality and yet have vastly different responses to that situation which determines the personal reality that we experience.

You may see something in a negative way while I see it in a positive way or vice versa, both real, both true for us individually even though it is based on the same neutral event.

My truth is about creating the reality I prefer to experience from the objective base that we all share. Your truth sounds like one of seeing through subjectivity to the objective beneath. Both work!

Love and Light

[GentleStrength]

Originally Posted by Alan

Your example is flawed. Two people having different experiences in the astral is down to the astral being such a vast place. What that means is one person has been in a location(s) with war-like themes, and another person has not. None of this simplistic absolutist "the astral is a place of war/peace" stuff is necessary.

Two people standing right next to each other can see the same thing and yet create vastly different realities from it. Each person has a true perception of what has occurred regardless of how opposite the meaning they find within it.

Simple example, a sunrise. To many a symbol of awakening, renewal, beauty, creation and love. To others a sign that it is wayyy too early, too bright, and probably time to go to bed! Same objective experience (sun coming up), two vastly different but equally valid personal realities/truths.

Love and Light

Originally Posted by Xanth

And blue could be red... and up could be south...

I can't really convince you that what I say is the truth... I can't even convince you that what you say is the truth.

Just... hold off on judging things until *YOU* personally have the experience and evidence to support it. :)

So if were both looking at the sun standing side by side we can't prove what we see to one another?

Think about what your saying, it is ridiculous to the 10th power.

I guess we can't point fingers at organized religion anymore and ask how people can believe such nonsense theologies. It seems seems everyone has thrown order and science out of the window.

Originally Posted by GentleStrength

Objective reality has no inherent meaning

If objective reality had no inherent meaning science would have no practical uses, honestly.

I believe as we depart from the physical what is objective becomes more and more open to interpretation (more subjective) but it never loses its objectivity. This continues until there is just pure subjectivity which is no different than pure objectivity if you think about it. What state is this? Focus 4? Enlightenment? I hope to someday know.