Does there exist non-maya?

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Just too much typing.

Is it shortage of time, laziness, or something else that bothers you?

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Vinayaka

It's defined as the substance emanated from Siva that allows form to manifest, or via which form manifests.

This confuses me. I always thought Brahma was the Creating God, Vishnu de Maintaining God and Siva the Destroying God.

[sunsoul]

Hinduism isn't just comprised of one particular view, Serrao. Trying to compartmentalise it neatly is not going to work..

The Vedic Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) and the associated stories of creation are just one particular version of how the universe was brought into being.. In some stories Brahma is the creator, and in others Vishnu.

For Tantrikas or Shaivites their understanding of how the universe was born and is maintained will be different from more orthodox views.

You can find some overlap with terms like maya or prakriti but really you have to understand one system properly before you can easily start making more general comparisons.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

Hinduism isn't just comprised of one particular view, Serrao. Trying to compartmentalise it neatly is not going to work..

The Vedic Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) and the associated stories of creation are just one particular version of how the universe was brought into being.. In some stories Brahma is the creator, and in others Vishnu.

For Tantrikas or Shaivites their understanding of how the universe was born and is maintained will be different from more orthodox views.

You can find some overlap with terms like maya or prakriti but really you have to understand one system properly before you can easily start making more general comparisons.

I was born and raised Christian. All the Christian movements have almost the same fundament, view and goal(s). I'm not used to too much contrast and different views based on the same filosophy, which is the case in Hinduism. Hence my confusion.
Do you know how all this contrast and diversity came to existence in Hinduism?

[sunsoul]

The difference in philosophy can probably be said to exist because of the remarkably pluralistic attitude towards worship within Hinduism where there are many paths or margas, and people just choose the best one for their temperament (like jnana yoga, bhakti yoga or karma yoga, etc) and the fact that there were a lot of different regional practices and beliefs that were all integrated into Hinduism (whether Vedic, Tantric, Sramana, or Tamil, etc).

India was basically a vast melting pot of differing cultures. Even today, people from northern India who speak Hindi cannot understood southern Tamil speakers. There are about 100 official languages in India and many more dialects.... As well as lots of indigenous religious practices.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

There are about 100 official languages in India and many more dialects.... As well as lots of indigenous religious practices.

There are 22 official languages in India.

India is one of the most ancient civilizations on earth, probably the most ancient. And the only one that is alive and kicking even now. The chinese civilization was tragically severed from its ancient links by the cultural revolution by Mao in the sixties, much to the great loss of the world.

The linguistic diversity showcases the growth of culture and prodigious literary development in ancient times.

Originally Posted by sunsoul

The difference in philosophy can probably be said to exist because of the remarkably pluralistic attitude towards worship within Hinduism where there are many paths or margas, and people just choose the best one for their temperament (like jnana yoga, bhakti yoga or karma yoga, etc) and the fact that there were a lot of different regional practices and beliefs that were all integrated into Hinduism (whether Vedic, Tantric, Sramana, or Tamil, etc).

This is true, and the various streams of philosophical thought can be put as dvaita, vishistadvaita and advaita , which follows each other in sequential order as per Vivekananda.

Just as all the different streams and rivers originating in different places finally end up in the ocean,all these modes of worship and philosophies were basically designed in different times at different places by different saints and sages, for the sole purpose of raising one's consciousness to the level of Brahman, the infinite consciousness, though they may appear different externally.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Serrao

This confuses me. I always thought Brahma was the Creating God, Vishnu de Maintaining God and Siva the Destroying God.

An enlightened master had stated that God is an acronym of 'Generator-Operator-Destroyer'.


The one consciousness that is Brahman becomes these three entities Brahma,Vishnu and Shivshankar to supervise the dual world and its aspects of creation, maintenance and destruction.

Since these deities are free of karma themselves and are in a state of pure consciousness, their worship has been advocated to expand one's consciousness to become one with the infinite consciousness (Brahman) in bhakti yoga, and are generally seen as symbols of the infinite.


It should be understood that there is only one God in Hinduism, the infinite Brahman, symbolized as Om.

The mantras for the worship of Brahma, Vishnu and Shivshankar also starts with Om.

Om Brahmaya Namah

Om Narayanaya Namah

Om Shankaraya Namah



It is similar to the trinity in Christianity , with the worship of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. In the Trinitarian view too, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost share the one essence, substance or being.

I would like to add one thing here. You can see Jesus worship God or Abba at one time, and at the same time saying," I and my Father are one" .

Perhaps, Jesus himself had an experiential understanding of the nondual Brahman.

[Vinayaka]

Originally Posted by Serrao

This confuses me. I always thought Brahma was the Creating God, Vishnu de Maintaining God and Siva the Destroying God.

This is the simplistic view written by indologists trying to study Hinduism at the turn of the century. Although it made it into encyclopedias, and has somehow managed to stay there, it has very little bearing to the reality of Hinduism, just like a whole lot of western indologists interpretation of Hinduism. So best to discard that as wrong information.

The three represent three factors in the continuous cycle - emanation (wrongly translated as creation ... (using the Abrahamic lens to view something outside of it) sustaining, and then dissolution (wrongly translated as destruction ... again, looking through the wrong lens). Within Saivism, Vaishnavism, and Shaktism, all three of these stages in the cosmic cycle are included and done by each individual God. So for me, Siva does all 3. For a Vaishnavite, Vishnu does all 3, etc.

There is incredibly little worship of Brahma in India today. Shakti (any of several 'female' versions of God.) should be the one mentioned instead, as its very popular. The whole male-female thing is incorrect as well. It's far more accurate to think unmanifest-manifest, or even cause-effect.

[Serrao]

Hello Sunsoul, Ajay and Vinayaka ,

After reading your posts, I now see how simple my knowledge and understanding of Hinduism was. I'm better informed now. Thank you .
So if I get this right, the answer to the original question is: Non-Maya is Brahman and all that emanates from Brahman is Maya?

[sunsoul]

Yes, ajay. According to the Indian constitution it lists 22 official languages. However, according to the census of India (2001) there are 122 major languages, and 1599 other languages.