Why duality is not true, part 2

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

the suffering is not about the world. It is always self caused.

I would say not all suffering is self caused.

I think it depends on what somebody is talking about. If an unseen or unheard bear falls on you from a tree above and breaks your legs, that suffering is not self caused. If you are walking around thinking about what mean thing a person did to you last year, that suffering is self caused.

If somebody wholly accepts whatever is, it still is a kind of suffering, but it's less suffering. Like if somebody gets their car stolen, they could get really mad and upset and cry and scream and yell. Somebody else could say, oh well it's my karma and accept it calmly without getting emotional or upset. That's another example of self caused suffering. Both "suffer" the loss of a car they need, but one suffers less. The natural suffering is there, but not the self caused suffering.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I would say...
... caused suffering.

If there is no absolute way out of suffering and suffering is thus all that exists for ever. Atleast to some degree... Then we are suffering. And all suffering then comes from the self. Which is then made out of that duality.

If there would be something that is nondual, then we could simply abide in that and as that and there would be no suffering. Then all suffering is self caused. But there is no such nondual thing.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I am not...
... making you suffer.
Peace

thanks.
I dont know any author who deliberately creates suffering. I see suffering simply as part of the duality that we are. Its there whether we try to avoid it or not, focus elsewhere and it comes still.

If there truely is a nonduality, then I am the cause of all my suffering. And I like to hope that there is a nonduality. Otherwise there is just suffering.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by saurab

awareness is nondual because....
... duality and innocence is lost as we become adults.

If awareness is a simultaneous state of being and becoming, isn't that just another paradox/duality?

I can say, "I am just being the awareness." and then suffering comes and then I realise, "oh, being my awareness, my awareness also becomes."

What is that which is being without becoming? That is truely nondual. But I don't think, we, as awareness, can become aware of it. There seems to be no way to reach it as an awareness.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

...Like if somebody gets their car stolen, they could get really mad and upset and cry and scream and yell.
Somebody else could say, oh well it's my karma and accept it calmly without getting emotional or upset. .

Funny, that's the example I use...I say imagine (an American) Buddhist monk's car is stolen or
dented in the parking lot...to help people that just can not believe anyone could be so calm and detached!
Well, they can be!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

... then I am the cause of all my suffering.

I myself do not believe in any coincidences and yes, "I am the cause of all my suffering".

Why no coinky-dinkys? Just because I have had 2 of those "Your-life-flashes-before -you-moments"---as in, in 2-3 seconds you see
all these 'scenes' from your life - while simultaneously given the insight -
ALL of it was orchestrated like a Swiss watch --all the cogs fitting perfectly just for 'you'; in that 'moment' for you to get 'right here Now'.
Anyone can disagree with me, of course.

I believe what Abraham-Hicks explained: If we walk around with no conscious intention...like Mr. Magoo...an apt cartoon for this,
a near-sighted old man bumbling along in life....then, yes, we can drive right into a car accident or have a skunk cross our path and spray us.
BUT, if our minds are clear and set, "My day is going to be wonderful and safe", for example...the skunk is no where near us.
Ha, almost like a protective bubble.

You don't believe me? You don't have to ...try it for yourself for, say, a month..each day set your intention, "My day is
going to be wonderful and safe", for example.
Another month stop doing that...you could even say, "I open to whatever" each morning.

See for yourself. I am a firm believer in, "Seeing is believing."
Experiment with most everything, see for yourself.

Now do I believe anything that happens - wonderful or not so much is perfect...
You bet I do...absolute perfection to break your leg or to win the race.
But, that's me..not using the usual worldly logic of the mind.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I myself...
... worldly logic of the mind.

"Today I am going to once and for all fully realise what non-duality truely is."

Just kidding. but thanks ofcourse you're so right. setting a good intention at what I want the day to be like helps a whole big lot. makes a huge difference. today I set the intention for happiness. I wasn't feeling perfectly wonderful, but allot, a whole lot, less sad than usual.

Sometimes I just gotta take what works and go with it.

Focus on and setting intention on happiness and joy and my life goes allot better if not just allot less bad than usual.

If only I listen to a positive harmony on a loop. I may not solve all the worlds troubles, but I do feel allot better on that day at the least. That is the best I can do.

Sometimes I cry listening to a positive harmony. But if I stick with it, eventually the discord in me makes way for harmony and I feel better. Nothing in life changes but my experience does feel better.


And ofcourse I can also always set the intention for God Realisation. Why not. If it works with feeling better, I don't see why not. Atleast I'll have glimpses of something more and better every day. The longer I stick with it, the better it goes. Consistency of focus and intention is key. If that is not possible, then repetition is good for a start. As long as the intention is there, and consistently reactivated, it always turns into atleast something good. No matter how little, it is enough and always better than nothing or stumbling into unwanted experiences.

But as you say, I had to experience stumbling ongoingly into negative experience to get off my butt and intent something good instead. To say enough is enough. I can decide to simply focus on what l want and focus on my intention and focus my intention into being and becoming. if only it is just happiness. Or feeling good or positivity. To restore my faith again, that yes... I can have my intentions fulfilled. I can realise them more fully if I stick with them. And also surrender to them and with them and eventually, with enough consistency and repetition, surrender as them. And fully enjoy the moment. No matter what little I am enjoying, it is enough and it has to be, otherwise it wont become more. so I let it be enough and I let it thus become more joy.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

No matter what little I am enjoying, it is enough and it has to be, otherwise it wont become more. so I let it be enough and I let it thus become more joy.

That's beautiful!

I'd say my goal is peace, within and without. Don't really need to add any more ideas to that. I could add a bunch of stuff to that, like non-duality or something, enlightenment etc, but all of that is included in the total and ultimate all pervading peace I have as a goal.

I also know like you said, "let it be enough," the peace is always here and now it's just I am adding some idea that makes now something else. If I am not experiencing total and divine peace within and without right now, it just means I still have my attention on some idea that is making me experience now as something else.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Maisy

That's beautiful!
... something else.

Sorry to go offtopic, but Now that you mention it. I might have a suggestion you might like. Peace has also always been my goal. It used to. Now it's on automatic goal.

You know how in most movies there isn't much peace? I can get very sensitive when a movie has too much violence. So I found this movie that was like the biggest action adventure movie I have ever watched with so little violence and so much excitement. So peaceful so sublime! I had nearly zero "unpeaceful" triggers during that movie.

It's called "close encounters of the third kind." from 1977. I bought and watched in on google/youtube films with my supermarket google currency card receit code. What a movie! woah! they made movies really well back then. And every scene is so precious and sometimes full of subtle humor. I can just hear myself laughing with the directors in the back of the scene.

This is really how a movie should be made. And the end product is peaceful beyond description. Such much peaceful action. It is such a classic. Every scene is like a milestone in how movies are made. I was so deeply immersed in the movie, every scene nothing like unto Anything I have ever seen before ever! and there was no trigger of violence at any point. Everything was so perfect about the movie. Wish every movie was as peaceful as that one. Let alone as adventurous and exciting as that one. And immersive! The small details I love so much about it.

And I wasn't even born in 1977. That just makes it even so much more precious and fun and exciting! The impact that movie had on me was profound. It's so peaceful and fun! Aaah, I love it!


ok sorry, back to topic.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

And all suffering then comes from the self.

I think most suffering does not come from the self.

A few Examples - there are many thousands more:

Someone steals you car or attacks you or someone you love.

You are born with an unhealthy body or brain which results in mental or physical pain or major challenges in life.

You get a disease or illness through no fault of your own.

Life is full of a lot of suffering of various kinds. Like parents who lose a child. Person who dive into a pool and hit the bottom wrong and are then paralyzed. People who lose their jobs and become homeless. None of that comes from the self we are aware of here on earth. It's karma and destiny.

But I think we may chose these hard lives full of suffering before we are born for lessons we need to learn and things we need to experience and in fact, "hard lives" can lead to spiritual advances in ourselves. So our actual self, who chose this life before we were born, is responsible for it in a sense. But in an incarnation, the norm is to have our real identity and memories blocked, so say we are born with a severe anxiety brain disorder that leads to a very hard life, we don't have the perspective of the real self, we only have this self, the self of this person, so from our perceptive it's rough. But we can learn about spirituality and know it's all for a greater purpose. Our suffering is for a purpose.

No one likes to suffer so at it's most basic level it leads us to seek peace, seek ways to lessen or end the suffering, that often leads to spiritual progress, learning acceptance, faith and trust. I think a lot of times we experience suffering of a certain kind because we caused that kind of suffering to someone else in a past life, so by experiencing what it feels like ourselves, we learn empathy and compassion and through that karma will never harm someone in that way again.

I don't think anyone intentionally causes themselves pain or suffering. I think if someone is causing themselves suffering, it's because they are not aware they are doing so. Like I said, suffering exists, but I think it's there for a higher cause and purpose so in the big picture, it's not a bad thing. It can bring positive change.