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[sentient]

Originally Posted by JustBe

This is true. A lot of self motivational points at yourself only serve to tell yourself ‘you know’ where as the unknown is a whole different ball game.
The leap perhaps the unknown yet to be created..

The unseen, unknown is often vastly different to the logical mind..

Yep, this is it.

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[sky]

Originally Posted by sentient

^
Is this the expression of “when silence speaks”…..

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' Speak only when you feel your words are better than your silence '

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

' Speak only when you feel your words are better than your silence '

Saying stop to one harming another. Love, compassion, empathy...expressions of those are the only examples I could think of where words are better than silence. Words that uplift, that help others. Words that make others lives better.

"The Way is wordless. Words are illusions … Don't cling to appearances, and you'll break through all barriers…"
— Bodhidharma

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Saying stop to one harming another. Love, compassion, empathy...expressions of those are the only examples I could think of where words are better than silence. Words that uplift, that help others. Words that make others lives better.

"The Way is wordless. Words are illusions … Don't cling to appearances, and you'll break through all barriers…"
— Bodhidharma

Obviously it depends on the circumstances, sometimes silence is best especially if we are angry and could say words that hurt others as well as ourselves .

On other occasions we are not attuned to the words of others because we are concentrating more on what we personally want to reply and instead we are hearing their words but not listening.

If we don't listen silence is best....



'Love, compassion, empathy'

Are actions not words imo....


A meaningful silence is always better than meaningless words.....

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I can put an experience into words, but where is the experience in the words?

That is very well-worded !

[Phaelyn]

A lot of times ideas/thoughts appear in our minds which end up as written or said (and believed or accepted as truth or factual) and they are completely non-sense. But, because the source of this non-sense is the exact same source that validates the truth of such stuff it is never transcended or questioned. Transcended is the better term there because the "questioner/analyzer" is often tied into that same source full of non-sense.

A funny side note to that is the idea of being empty or entering silence or transcending this or that because the "tool" being used here is the same source of non-sense. If one finds oneself free and clear of the source of non-sense, one finds themselves here, recognizing they are always here and always have been, but not here as "something."

None of the words and concepts from spirituality apply. I'm free of the voice telling me what anything is, what this is, what I am, because it is very clear what everything is, what this is, what I am as it is directly present and obvious. Self evident. But then all this knowing is non-verbal. Not related to words at all.

It's funny how we think understanding or knowledge is verbal when really the words are just a way to move the understanding from here to there. Like a wire to transmit. To move from one person to another.

But then the "receiver" to the information can be the box of non-sense or just unconditioned seeing... it just depends where our attention is, to what we are including in now, what we are tangled up in. If we are tangled up in the non-sense box, everything gets "translated" through that. If we are free of that box, we see things for what they are. One can live in that box or not.

"How" does not apply because one is already there. "Why" maybe works. If I am there now and am experiencing something different why? Because one is focused on something else. Oh how pops up again... How to not focus there?

Well one is doing it. Up to them to not do it. It's like somebody is staring at a piece of trash and someone says, oh look at the sky and clouds it is beautiful. The person looking at the trash asks, how? Maybe asks, why? Up to them really what they are looking at.

I guess teachers point at the sky and clouds, then someone eventually figures out where and how.

[sentient]

‘They’ say mindfulness meditation does penetrate the first veil, the kleshas, the afflictions or the veil of emotional defilements ….. but not the second veil (both veils being the blocks on the path to enlightenment or Samadhi)
…. and the second veil to me sounds like the “CCF – barrier”

“The Conscious Critical Faculty” – the barrier between conscious and subconscious …

The Conscious Critical Faculty under hypnosis feels like a psychological membrane you bypass at will to get to your subconscious.

Your Conscious Critical Faculty filters out all information that does not fit in with your belief system. The mechanism is simple. Everything we encounter and every situation we meet, is compared with our existing knowledge-base – which includes all our previous limitations and awareness of things that we cannot do. If it does not find a match – that is, if it opposes what we already have learnt – then it is likely to be rejected as inaccurate or worthless.

Therefore CCF also seems to work as a Fear Barrier protecting the mind from receiving impressions that do not fit one’s map of the world or belief system and justly so because one may not be ‘ready’ .

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I have not meditated in a group, not long enough anyway. Only at art school doing still life drawings – as a group – we collectively did let go of the logical mind and entered into ‘the flow’ – a palpable group *felt shift* happened.
Except there was one woman in our class, who couldn’t shift and at the point of the ‘collective shift’ she would start laughing hysterically, a kind of hollow, empty echo laugh …

Same when doing a hypno session in a group – just when we were about to “go under” – one woman freaked out.

Doing a Tai-Chi class – a *felt shift* usually happened during the warm up circle. And at the point of the shift, the teacher once commented something like …. “Oh, the energy has shifted” (to give that 'silent experience a voice’) …. & I suppose in case the new students were unfamiliar to it and wondering …).

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When ‘entering silence’ – have you ever experienced a *felt shift*? .... A *dimensional* change?

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I would imagine that the image/poem below would be about the *felt shift*, the “leap” beyond the mind into the unknown:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/dc...c8cc35e355.png

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[sky]

Originally Posted by sentient

‘They’ say mindfulness meditation does penetrate the first veil, the kleshas, the afflictions or the veil of emotional defilements ….. but not the second veil (both veils being the blocks on the path to enlightenment or Samadhi)
…. and the second veil to me sounds like the “CCF – barrier”

“The Conscious Critical Faculty” – the barrier between conscious and subconscious …

Therefore CCF also seems to work as a Fear Barrier protecting the mind from receiving impressions that do not fit one’s map of the world or belief system and justly so because one may not be ‘ready’ .

*

I have not meditated in a group, not long enough anyway. Only at art school doing still life drawings – as a group – we collectively did let go of the logical mind and entered into ‘the flow’ – a palpable group *felt shift* happened.
Except there was one woman in our class, who couldn’t shift and at the point of the ‘collective shift’ she would start laughing hysterically, a kind of hollow, empty echo laugh …

Same when doing a hypno session in a group – just when we were about to “go under” – one woman freaked out.

Doing a Tai-Chi class – a *felt shift* usually happened during the warm up circle. And at the point of the shift, the teacher once commented something like …. “Oh, the energy has shifted” (to give that 'silent experience a voice’) …. & I suppose in case the new students were unfamiliar to it and wondering …).

*

When ‘entering silence’ – have you ever experienced a *felt shift*? .... A *dimensional* change?

*

I would imagine that the image/poem below would be about the *felt shift*, the “leap” beyond the mind into the unknown:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/dc...c8cc35e355.png

*

' Doing a Tai-Chi class – a *felt shift* usually happened during the warm up circle.'

I haven't seen a warm up circle, that's interesting. What Form do you practise ?

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sentient

‘They’ say mindfulness meditation does penetrate the first veil, the kleshas, the afflictions or the veil of emotional defilements ….. but not the second veil

I would imagine the second veil to be the personal view. Like "I" practice mindfulness... but what about when I no longer operate as an "I?" Maybe the second veil is gone.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by sky123

I haven't seen a warm up circle, that's interesting. What Form do you practise ?

I started off with the Australian Academy of Tai Chi and did 2 levels …
…. but then travelling for years - forgot it and started again, when a Chinese lady in our village was teaching it. She did the same form, which is?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wu-RCjJamo

Now I do some Yoga, Pilates and Qi Gong for exercise.

Warm up circle? …. Just doing a warm up routine in a circle, when you have a small class …… and doing it in the nature - forest all around helps to open up ... and then you do the movements to open up more ....

And that reminds me. I have really missed the “Tai Chi Qigong Shibashi” - type of short morning routine we learned, which we also did at the beginning of the class at the Academy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAwbJ9MO91I

So ..... from an idea .... into action ...

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