Astra projection is essentially just visualization

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Hadit

Visualization, by definition, requires the outside world to exist. We need to use our brain to picture something we aren't actually seeing or experiencing in waking, objective reality.

Not as I see it. Pure consciousness could visualize with no need for anything else. Even an isolated brain ought to be able to do the same thing. As per your indication there is no need to 'see' or 'experience' objective reality.

Originally Posted by wstein

Not as I see it. Pure consciousness could visualize with no need for anything else. Even an isolated brain ought to be able to do the same thing. As per your indication there is no need to 'see' or 'experience' objective reality.

93,

Likewise we have no reason to believe in "pure consciousness", a definition that's also probably being misunderstood. An isolated brain would take in no information and would be incapable of visualization because of it.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Hadit

93,

Likewise we have no reason to believe in "pure consciousness", a definition that's also probably being misunderstood. An isolated brain would take in no information and would be incapable of visualization because of it.

Brains are quite capable of making up information, its called imagination. There is contribution from internal noise and other erroneous artifacts.

Originally Posted by wstein

Visualization is a mentally constructed creation following a dimensional layout (space and/or time).

The field of view most 'see' with their eyeballs is actually a visualization. The visual system collects information from light striking the retina. However, that information is very basic and quite noisy. Further the actual input is low resolution and not the 'whole' visual field (the eyeball jumps about to scan the scene). The kinds of information collected are contrast, edges, hues, light levels. The mind/brain construct a model based on this input.

Though in the case of physical vision, the visualization is based on 'input', one can visualize entirely out of imagination. More commonly, visualization is a combination of some sensory input, memories, and a bit of imagination.

93,

This "visual system", to use your words, is called seeing, not visualizing. We see things in objective reality, we visualize things in the mind.

Originally Posted by wstein

Brains are quite capable of making up information, its called imagination. There is contribution from internal noise and other erroneous artifacts.

93,

Yes and imagination is another thing all together. You see the words I'm typing. You can visualize the burger you want for dinner. You imagine having sex with Jessica Alba.

[desert rat]

To me visuaozation is forming a pic. in the head/mind . Some are better at it than others . Hadit , you remind me of a member on S.T. , I am just not sure who .
http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/

Originally Posted by desert rat

To me visuaozation is forming a pic. in the head/mind . Some are better at it than others . Hadit , you remind me of a member on S.T. , I am just not sure who .
http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/

93,

That'd exactly what visualization is, and I've never seen that site haha.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Hadit

An isolated brain would take in no information and would be incapable of visualization because of it.

Originally Posted by wstein

Brains are quite capable of making up information, its called imagination. There is contribution from internal noise and other erroneous artifacts.

Originally Posted by Hadit

Yes and imagination is another thing all together. You see the words I'm typing. You can visualize the burger …

Ok, either brains can internally generate visualization without external input or they can’t. Which is it?

Originally Posted by wstein

Ok, either brains can internally generate visualization without external input or they can’t. Which is it?

93,

I never said they can. A brain with no stimulus wouldn't be visualizing anything.

I have starting to believe that everything is consciousness, and that is what we all have in common. We are sharing consciousness, not the world. There is no objective, physical world out there. Some common beliefs that seems to verify that world, yes. But no overall consensus, never. Why? There is no static objective world or space or universe. And there is no spiritual world in here. Or anywhere else. There is one consciousness with may views and worlds (images, beliefs etc.), one consciousness that take many shapes, not many consciousness with origin in the brain, and these brains (and bodies) are walking around in a fixed solid world and experience it. The one consciousness is creating it all the time.

There is no separation between inner world or outer world, it is one big dream that we are trying to put in boxes, categorys, examine and understand.
Right or wrong, real or unreal, this and that, such and such. The right path, the wrong religion or belief system, it never ends. Why? Because there is no objective truth outside (or inside). That is where we get fooled, that is the big lie I think.

No consciousness, no world. No consciousness, no shopping mall. No consciousness, no astral travel. So... There is nothing real. Or everything is real. Some people believe in the stock market and the happiness that money can bring. Some people believe in angels for the same reason. One is not better than the other. But it is all part of the same dance. The universal dance where everyone and everything is equal.

Only experience is real (or unreal). Can we know ANYTHING outside of our own experience? We can read and take that for truth. We can watch TV and so on. Our limited view divides experiences and second hand knowledge in real or unreal while there is ONLY consciousness dreaming it all. All experinces are equal, one is not more real than the other. It is all part of the dream. Astral travel is imo a dream within the dream.

We are characters in a movie. One part of the screen is not more real than another part of the screen. There are different colors and shapes on the screen but nothing is real, only the screen. Or consciousness. One movie played on a screen might seem better, more intelligent and real than another. But it is all part of the movie. Is a movie real? Yes. And no. Is stuff seen in a meditation real? Yes. And no. Is the dentist office real? Yes. And no. Do I know what I am talking about? Yes. And no.