mark of the beast

Amilus (wow it IS hard to tell between you and animus!)

I agree with your last post completely, besides the point where you state the bible is not historically accurate. Sure, the odds are, god didnt send down some psuedo godlike being to be born of a virgin, and that god didnt tell noah to build an ark that would barely hold the regions animals, and him, let alone the worlds, but there are many wars, civs, date, cities and more which have been corrobarated due to archeology. There is more then enough evidence to suggest there was a king david around the same time as the OT has been archeologicaly dated too.

The bible has so many stories that are older then judeism inside of it, like noahs ark is the epic of gilgamesh, which is way older then the summarian texts its been found on. The odds are the flood myth is about the time when massive climate upheavels brought about the end of the ice age, and the climate shifts thereafter. There are native american stories which talk about visiting the melting wall of ice, and myths of giant beaver dams and flooding.

The point yo made about revalations is the same thing I have found. OF course we can never 100% prove it, but reading the NT in the context of "hating"/being taken over by the romans, things make much more sense.

Manley P. Hall writes that the number of the beast (666) is an example of the use of Qabbalism in the NT.

"James Morgan Pryse also notes that according to this method of figuring, the Greek term ἡφρην,whichsignifies the lower mind, has 666 as its numerical equivalent. It is also well known to Qabbalists that ησους, Jesus, has for its numerical value another sacred and secret number--888. Adding the digits of the number 666 and again adding the digits of the sum gives the sacred number--9 the symbol of man in his unregenerate state and
also the path of his resurrection."

http://www.911truth.ch/pdf/The-secre...ley-P-Hall.pdf

[Amilius777]

This is why both Gnostics and Catholics, Arians and Orthodox, Nestorians and Hypostatics were all right in the early Centuries

Example:
Gnostics believed that Jesus was a divine spirit that only appeared to be human among the masses. This is true in a certain context. The Christ-spirit which appeared in Jesus' words, actions, and thought was not entirely human. The Christ-spirit is the logos, the Only Begotten Son, manifest in Jesus the man.

Arians believed that Jesus was a Man who became God's Son. This is correct. Jesus was a mortal man who manifested a perfect divine-human unity, thus becoming the Son.

Nestorians believed that Jesus and Christ were two different persons. They were right in this regard: Christ is a divine person from eternity, the Logos, the Christ Being which made all things. Jesus is the human person, historical Man, who manifested this Christ-Spirit.

Orthodox/Catholic nowadays have always believed that Jesus was the 2nd Person of Trinity who became flesh, incarnated as a Man, died, resurrected and went back to God as God and man. This is ALSO TRUE! Jesus' divinity, his Christ-self existed before the human expression. He dwelt in heaven as his angelic Spiritual Self, chosen to be the messiah. He descended and became a man to teach and guide us and ended up making a perfect sacrifice for God and humanity.

You see how all points, Orthodox, Heretical, Mystics, Secretive etc are all correct when you look at it one way or another?

The Orthodox won out because frankly the truth about Orthodox Jesus is in fact the Truth about Ourselves!

[Morpheus]

"The Mark" of the Beast really began with digital technology and computerization, involving the UPC code on all products, which is also utilized in cards... and now with Cell Phones, and satellites. -Our, artificial "stars" overhead, in space.

Of course further refinement of the system would be to eliminate accessories or "devices", and to place "the mark" directly in, or on people.


The, "Beast" is the human generated, comprehensive system by which everyone is tracked and monitored, and by which all commercial transactions take place, apart from Cash usage.
The text certainly makes it sound like cash transactions will no longer be allowed at a certain point.

Regarding, "Babylon"...Similar to John of Patmos, who is called up to Heaven in chapter 4, said to be representative of the church... in chapter 18 of Revelation, God's people are told to, "come out of her", and, no longer, "be partaker of her sins".

Re: "Rapture".

Exampled, concerning trends:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/anonymous-blackout-cispa_n_3116509.html

"By Alexis Kleinman
Posted: 04/19/2013 12:43 pm EDT | Updated: 04/19/2013 3:02 pm EDT

Anonymous called for an Internet blackout in protest of CISPA, which passed the House on Thursday.

If signed into law, CISPA would make it legal for websites to give your personal information to the U.S. government without your permission."

[Morpheus]

http://hiddenlighthouse.wordpress.com/c ... the-beast

Lapiz Lazuli wrote:

The mark of the beast has nothing to do with money or trade at all. It represents mans dual nature...spiritual and animalistic. Like most things in the Bible, it has been misunderstood and twisted around to the point that the original truth to it are lost. Fear is what people think it teaches now. It takes a true understanding of the Bible to gain anything of deep value out of it, then, it can transform your life!

Hi Lapiz,

Considering the verse says that WITHOUT the mark of the beast, which is in either the hand or the forehead, that NO ONE can BUY or SELL without it, I think it's pretty darn clear that the verse IS talking about money or a form of money.

The closest thing from the verse that fits your assertive interpretation (e.g. anamalistic) is the word 'beast'. Apart from that, your interpretation completely overlooks what the verse is saying.

A true understanding of the bible will only come when we are willing to hear what we don't want to hear. Oftentimes, it just takes honesty and sincerity, to see what is actually written.

As for promoting fear, I don't think the bible does that, nor am I doing so. Fear is not from God.

Animus27 wrote: ''But ultimately, I think one must be careful with any interpretation of Revelation, since it is a mystery.''

Back to me:

I agree that one should be careful in interpreting, but I do think there is a place for honest interpretation, being willing to hear what we least want to hear (i.e. whatever challenges our biases/prejudices). There are a couple of times in the Revelation where it says, ''he who has wisdom, let him understand'', or words to that effect.

From this it seems clear that something is being communicated, and it takes a certain amount of wisdom to understand it. Jesus also said similar things, when he said, 'he who has ears, let him hear''.

With prophecy there is and always will be a certain amount of 'mystery', until the prophecy comes closer/passes. However, I sincerely believe that the Revelation (as it says at the beginning) is a revelation to the servants of Jesus Christ. If we want to obey Jesus, and follow him in the Way, then the Holy Spirit will gives us the wisdom to understand what we need to from prophecy as and when we need to know it.

Morpheus wrote:

It's amazing to me, seeing the natural progress of things, that Perdu's post is dismissed.

Evident of a lack of interest and study of prophecy.

However, "The Beast" I don't feel is the same as "the Man of Lawlessness", or, "Son of Perdition", spoken of by the Apostle Paul, elsewhere.

The "Beast" is the world system by which the Earth's population interacts and utilizes, "buys and sells", and lives by.
It is about modern, technological inter-relationships.

The,"Beast", also then,is related to, "Babylon".


Remember, as Hal Lindsay wrote about... there is a threefold narrative in the Book of Revelation, using different symbologies for the same things that transpire during the Tribulation period. -That of seven years.

So "Babylon" also is not merely the Catholic church, as many believe, but the World in general... Related to, "The Beast".

So,"The anti-christ" personified is not the devil, is not the, "Beast", either. He is a world leader.

"The Mark" of the Beast really began with digital technology and computerization, involving the UPC code on all products, which is also utilized in cards... and now with Cell Phones, and satellites. -Our, artificial "stars" overhead, in space.

Of course further refinement of the system would be to eliminate accessories or "devices", and to place "the mark" directly in, or on people.


The, "Beast" is the human generated, comprehensive system by which everyone is tracked and monitored, and by which all commercial transactions take place, apart from Cash usage.
The text certainly makes it sound like cash transactions will no longer be allowed at a certain point.

Regarding, "Babylon"...Similar to John of Patmos, who is called up to Heaven in chapter 4, said to be representative of the church... in chapter 18 of Revelation, God's people are told to, "come out of her", and, no longer, "be partaker of her sins".


Back to me:

Thanks Morpheus. I appreciate the points you have made, regarding your understanding of the beast and Babylon. I also REALLY appreciate that you can read Revelation 13:15-16, and actually see what it is clearly saying without trying to twist it.

Sorry for all the posts, but my internet has been quite sporadic, so I am only just catching up now.

I feel probably one of the main reasons why people look over what the mark of the beast passage is saying, is pretty much because of 'the love of money'.

Jesus clearly said we would either serve God or Money. He said we would hate one and love the other. How do you find out which the person loves? Easy... you see which they spend their time WORKING for. The mark of the beast is just God finally getting people to be honest. Do you trust in money and all money can buy to fulfill the needs of your physical and spiritual life, or do you trust in God?

Paul said that 'the love of money is the root of all evil''. Most people who hear this and are convicted by it, are quick to retort with 'but he said it's the LOVE of it, money in itself is not bad''.

While there is some truth to this statement, as after all Paul does say that it is the love of money that is the root of all evil. One needs to look at WHY they feel a need to qualify something/restate something that has already been said. Why do they feel the need to defend money? That is what is happening. Is it because they love money?

A good test to see if we love money is to stop working for it. A good test to see if we are attached to something is to forsake it. These are things that Jesus taught, and he taught them for a reason.

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

A good test to see if we love money is to stop working for it.

Then what? Starve? Social security? or, in other words, have other people work for money so that you can prove you do not love it?