How Can Christians Believe This???

[Kaere]

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

I don't know Kaere, I don't think the Bible is bunk.. but religion leaves an aweful lot to be desired. So much fear, separation and hate is being taught. Christianity will beg to differ and claim to walk in the love of God and Jesus Christ. Yet they condemn many to hell... That makes me sit back and truly think.

If religion doesn't work for you, then why spend any more time on it? I don't say this to be flippant or point fingers but... are you truly trying to understand how their minds work and such or... are you trying to justify (to yourself or others) why you don't hold the same ideas as they do?

Why worry about what someone else believes?

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

I was taught (and believe it's accurate) that fearing the lord meant that you fear making him feel bad, by using poor judgment in your choices, and hurting one's self in the process, by going against his guidelines, golden rule, that sort of thing, not that I fear he'll beat the tar out of me or banish me to hell or something.

Warmest greetings, Silvergirl!

Perhaps the following passages from the Bible will illustrate what is meant by having fear of the Lord.

"Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God: for I am the Lord your God." --LEVITICUS 25:17 (KJV)

"That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged." -- DEUTERONOMY 6:2 (KJV)

"And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive, as it is at this day." -- DEUTERONOMY 6:24 (KJV)

"Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him." -- DEUTERONOMY 8:6 (KJV)

"And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul." -- DEUTERONOMY 10:12 (KJV)

There are of course many more such references in the Holy Bible but God is saying to walk in righteousness, to Love Him and serve Him with every fiber of one's being always as in doing so you can't go wrong. As our creator, He requires this simply because one cannot serve two masters. Either you Love God, keep His commandments, and fear Him or you do not thus align with anti-Christ. And since anti-Christ is the antithesis of Love and goodness, if you do not love your creator enough to obey Him and His commandments, fear should certainly overtake one who does not love the LORD as at their appointed time they will find out what loving and serving anti-Christ really means for them.

Deuteronomy 6:24 (above) explains it so well. In loving the LORD you fear to do wrong to self and others. When you do wrong as in when you do not fear God, He cannot protect you when it comes time for you to transition into the Afterlife, and one must remember that there are many levels there ranging from the darkest areas to the brightest Light! What one does while in this plane of existence greatly determines where one will end up when they pass on as it will be in one of those levels.

If a person did nothing but good, thus, feared God (especially when thinking about the judgment), they will surely attain Heaven and God's bright Light. If they did not fear Him and did what they pleased and brought bad times and evil unto others, they will surely gravitate to a like place where they will continue to receive what they sowed in this life to others when they are in the Afterlife. That is why fearing the LORD is key! One can't write their own ticket and expect to elevate into the higher dimensions of Light if they did not Love God, feared Him, and did not do as He expected of them. It is only when they FEAR the alternative of where they could go and instead decide to live a good, decent life serving God and teaching others to serve Him and requesting Salvation by becoming Born Again, that they can rest at ease in knowing that they will surely attain the merits of Heaven and the higher, brighter Light of God's kingdom.

Deus tecum and my special wishes for many blessings and a beautiful day!

I Am Sending You Many Hugs With Much Love and Pure Light,
(\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

Originally Posted by Shim

If I am guilty of something it is that I assume the Bible to be true. I ran across a scripture yesterday matter of fact. The first one I have came across thinking that there is an error, yet assuming the Bible to be true, I went to Pastors, Professors, and resourced one Scholar. I got three different answers. Now am I to suppose the Bible has an error? I think not, there has to be a logical explanation for it, whether this is due to my lack of knowledge, misunderstanding, or other ignorance on part. You asking the question that you have I think is answered in those articles, and supported by AngelBreeze's post, which by the way has always been presented in an eloquent way.

I don't know it all, never have claimed to. Faith is an action in everyday life of a belief that has sustained me. I have worked through my doubts which at times I see in others as being noble. Just look at the "disciple" Thomas, he wouldn't believe until he placed his fingers in the piercings and the spear entry into the side of Jesus! After all the recorded miracles. What message should we take away from that account? So, in light of this I am not criticizing you for asking a question, or even doubting your own faith in Jesus Christ because you want to in some way be the savior for all of mankind. That is noble in some ways.. but now I might be straying off topic.

And in regards to hell, if our basis for interpretation is on our life's experience, then I think that we are in for a lot of trouble. A mother who has a child murdered might have one interpretation of hell that is quite different than the person who believes or doubts the existence of hell. Including that of the murderer.

First of all shim.. let me say that it was nice to see you write something besides a list of scriptures

Then I will respond by saying that I could never be the savior of anyone, nor do I wish to be. I just think religion has planted too many negatives into the actual gospel message.. Look at your own words my friend, you fear the Lord because your afraid of what will happen to you if you sin.. Does not the Bible say that perfect love casts out fear? Does not the same Bible say that there is no condemnation in those who are in Christ Jesus? Does the Bible not say that we are no longer called sevants but friends? Where is the fear and condemnation in these words? It simply is not there.

And that word fear in the actual hebrew and greek means to have a deep reverance and respect for God. Not to actually have fright or dread. You say you read the scriptures and still you do not know that the Bible speaks out against being in a state of fear, worry and anxiety many, many times.

Did you also know that Christianity was quite different before Rome got hold of it and mixed it with their pagan beliefs? This is where purgatory and a host of other beliefs came from. And when Luther broke with the Church of Rome, he took some of those ideas with him even though he rejected others... And so did Calvin and so on down the line until today... Thus we have a mixture of ancient Christian beliefs mixed with what some call Romanism.. I am not saying those churches and beliefs are bad or evil... I'm just saying, that with all of the many breaks within christianity mixed with old beliefs and then new interpretations of the Bible, the original animal is a bit hard to indentify.... And that debate will go on until the end of time about who is right and whose take on what the Bible says is right.

That's why I, like Ms. Hepburn shook of the chains of religion.. but not the relationship with Jesus Christ.. because Jesus seems to say many things differently than the religions do.

And look within the pages of the Bible... Did Jesus ever condemn a sinner? No, he did not. The only people he ever had a sharp word for were the religious leaders of the day with their rules and traditions.

History loves to repeat my friend... I think a lot of people will be shocked when Jesus has his final say one day.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

It is a well known fact that in Christianity, one must believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.

But how can anyone believe that if there is a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ, through no fault of their own, that person will still go to hell? It does not matter how good and kind and moral they were.. it is still believed that they will thrown into the lake of fire.

And what about all of the people born in other countries where the culture and religion is much different from ours in the west? Their religion is just as natural as Christianity is to the christian.. are we to believe that all of those people, no matter how good they are will burn in hell?

How can someone believe this of good and decent people that they have never met?

I don't think it matters much.
Unfortunately there are several paths of development on this planet. Everyone has the structure to get us to the next level.
The mixing of the different paths can bring confusion and with it solidification in their believes , specially for those who are in their early development phase.
Just keep your hand ready, to reach out to those who are ready, when they are ready. Times will become very confusing. Specially for those with ridged belief systems.

Rah nam

Originally Posted by Kaere

If religion doesn't work for you, then why spend any more time on it? I don't say this to be flippant or point fingers but... are you truly trying to understand how their minds work and such or... are you trying to justify (to yourself or others) why you don't hold the same ideas as they do?

Why worry about what someone else believes?

Actually I have questioned these things for quite some time.. I can see no way that some of the beliefs within religion can be true. And if someone can point out what I may be missing.. then I have learned a valuable lesson and need to amend my thoughts.

So I guess I am here to present a case, and see what I can learn from it. I certaintly do not know all there is to know about certain subjects. Maybe I missed something in my own studies and ponderings. There seems to be some intelligent people here.. so I wanted to throw out the bone and see what bones of wisdom get thrown back.

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

First of all shim.. let me say that it was nice to see you write something besides a list of scriptures

Then I will respond by saying that I could never be the savior of anyone, nor do I wish to be. I just think religion has planted too many negatives into the actual gospel message.. Look at your own words my friend, you fear the Lord because your afraid of what will happen to you if you sin.. Does not the Bible say that perfect love casts out fear? Does not the same Bible say that there is no condemnation in those who are in Christ Jesus? Does the Bible not say that we are no longer called sevants but friends? Where is the fear and condemnation in these words? It simply is not there.

And that word fear in the actual hebrew and greek means to have a deep reverance and respect for God. Not to actually have fright or dread. You say you read the scriptures and still you do not know that the Bible speaks out against being in a state of fear, worry and anxiety many, many times.

Did you also know that Christianity was quite different before Rome got hold of it and mixed it with their pagan beliefs? This is where purgatory and a host of other beliefs came from. And when Luther broke with the Church of Rome, he took some of those ideas with him even though he rejected others... And so did Calvin and so on down the line until today... Thus we have a mixture of ancient Christian beliefs mixed with what some call Romanism.. I am not saying those churches and beliefs are bad or evil... I'm just saying, that with all of the many breaks within christianity mixed with old beliefs and then new interpretations of the Bible, the original animal is a bit hard to indentify.... And that debate will go on until the end of time about who is right and whose take on what the Bible says is right.

That's why I, like Ms. Hepburn shook of the chains of religion.. but not the relationship with Jesus Christ.. because Jesus seems to say many things differently than the religions do.

And look within the pages of the Bible... Did Jesus ever condemn a sinner? No, he did not. The only people he ever had a sharp word for were the religious leaders of the day with their rules and traditions.

History loves to repeat my friend... I think a lot of people will be shocked when Jesus has his final say one day.

In quick response, I get it. After hearing about the love of Jesus Christ (God) I get the message after four hundred times. After eight hundred times I am focusing on other attributes of God. His Justice, and His justice as imposed by way of the Prophets. Look at 1 Kings 19, Elijah feared for his life and thought that the Lord had abandoned him after killing all the false prophets of Baal. He ran from Jezebel and thought that he was all alone and God deserted him for doing the right thing and fell into a depression within a cave! Yet, the Lord came to him and had told him to anoint the future kings and that he had already chosen several hundred men whose knees never buckled or kissed the idols of Baal. When the Lord says to do something you do it!

Why did Elijah stand up, and do the right thing. What are the attributes of a Prophet or godly man? We are all in different walks in our lives, and it was by the saving grace of Jesus Christ that first brought me to surrender all to Him. We are all in different walks within our faith. That is key, when or if guilty of stereo typing all Christians. Remember that, in the congregation are drunkards, whose cries were called to the Lord. There are people directly out of Jail, and their are elders in the jails trying to bring people to Christ.

Did Jesus ever condemn a sinner, well what comes to mind is that Jesus told a sinner to go and sin no more! Who was that sinner often used in defense of committing sin?

Enjoyed your questions and comments The Sphinx.

[Silver]

I think Christianity as with many if not most larger world religions we can give them the benefit of the doubt, all of us who couldn't possibly understand in any scholarly fashion each one and the history and the language differences that go behind them. I think it is my religion to give them all the benefit of the doubt and just say they 'mean' or it is intended that all would understand and honor the golden rule and to use common sense (the good mind that respective gods have given us).

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

I don't know Kaere, I don't think the Bible is bunk.. but religion leaves an aweful lot to be desired. So much fear, separation and hate is being taught. Christianity will beg to differ and claim to walk in the love of God and Jesus Christ. Yet they condemn many to hell... That makes me sit back and truly think.

Are you sure you don't think the bible is bunk?
You praised Shim for not quoting scripture.

I agree that there are conflicting interpretations - especially about loving others, while being so judgmental.
But I don't think we should "throw the baby out with the bath water."
I realize the bible has been through a lot, yet I regularly find pearls of wisdom in it & other good books.

one and the same they are. just my opinion.

see my signature.

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by Shim

For me, to fear the Lord is to fear the consequences of sin, the wrath of God. To fear the Lord creates strength, in that one who fears the Lord fears no man. One will stand up against men, say the right thing, do the right thing without fear of the consequences imposed by men. It leads to right thinking, right speech, right action...

sounds a lot like karma...