Non Dual pointers! Pointing at what can't be pointed at.

[JayTruther]

Thank you very much indeed, going to check out this book now.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Non Duality is the absence of the "I" which means everything is just happening all by itself as "you" are not there and don't exist.
The body is moving by itself without a controller!
.

We are all welcome to declare what Non duality is or points too .

I agree in that at a point there is no self awareness ..

But when the body moves so do I .

A common misunderstanding I see often is that there is confusion when self awareness returns .

x daz x

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

After watching thousands of hours of non dual pointers from the youtube circuit "teachers" the following of the pointing always induces a state of open quiet stillness without thought. ...One day, not that long ago an actual glimpse took place of Non Duality, which was COMPLETELY different to this "state" the pointers would induce.

Naturally. The sign-post is a reminder but it is not the destination.

But I sometimes wonder why it takes thousands of hours of Youtube videos to tell people to do nothing and stop thoughts from arising. A five-minute video should suffice.

But because people don't get it they feel the need to watch another video and be reminded again and again and again.

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Until a glimpse has been seen then anything being said here is all concepts. Also to try telling me basics is somewhat patronising.

The question is, why were you not able to rest in this state beyond a brief glimpse? What were you holding onto? A glimpse is good, but the realisation of non-duality is a permanent ever-present state.

And I have to ask, who is it who is feeling patronised?

Peace

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

I would like to ask each of you a simple question.
Have you had a glimpse? If yes I'm eager to hear what insights you may have.
If not then again everything being said is regurgitated concepts, am I wrong?

What insights could I possible give you that wouldn't include words you have heard before, perhaps hundreds or thousands of times?

I'm going to suggest to you that because you had a beautiful and peaceful nondual glimpse beyond the conceptual mind that it is natural, even beneficial, to feel frustrated with the mind's regurgitating nature. But as you will soon discover if you wish to communicate your knowledge or experiences, your learned concepts are all you have.

My insight for you:
Frustration is a form of resistance.
Resistance (as you discovered while eating your kebab) is not present in nondual awareness.
Therefore the absence of resistance is how one knows they have ceased thinking dualistically, be it a glimpse or be it all the time.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by inavalan

This is like: you entered school as first-grader, and while in class the teachers is giving a lesson, you (not yet knowing why you are there) don't pay attention to that, and keep thinking about your stuff, and talking to the other kids. ...

The comparison can only be taken so far.

Learning at school is progressive. What we learn in one year builds upon what we have learned in previous years. If we have not paid attention in previous years then we will struggle to understand later teaching.

All these non-dual teachers with their books and videos are repeating the same thing over and over in different ways. And often these teachers are just saying do nothing, there is nothing to do (even if they themselves did plenty to reach the stage where they could let go of all doing). Yet people don't seem to get it so they watch yet another video saying do nothing.

Maybe the problem is that all these teachings are just the transmission of ideas to feed the mind. Something more is required to start emptying the mind.

Peace

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by iamthat

The comparison can only be taken so far....

Sorry, that isn't what I meant.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Something more is required to start emptying the mind

Yeah. I've come to the conclusion that that would be experiencing the world and then growing tired of it

[JayTruther]

@God-Like

I'm just telling you my experience, the body was moving and only watching was happening. That's all! And of course there's confusion when self awareness returns!

@inavalan

Those 1000s of hours pointed me in the right direction and I enjoyed watching them so......
As for detrimental indoctrination that's going a big far for a simple adyashanti video huh? To much drama with you guys.

@Iamthat

Your missing simple but vital points here, everyone is different and exhausting the mind takes time for some.

You know full well nobody just gets told look at awareness and stay there until its over. That's not a path and the ego needs a path to follow and find out for itself NOTHING WORKS. Only then will the simple truth been even looked at.
You know this but just trying to be smart.

As for resting in the "state" as you put it for longer, how the hell would I know? There is no damn control like I've said how many times?
And I was feeling patronised by being spoken back to like it's my first day into this. Just a dualistic annoyance!

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

After watching thousands of hours of non dual pointers from the youtube circuit "teachers" the following of the pointing always induces a state of open quiet stillness without thought.!

Firstly let me thank you for your very clear and courageous post. It takes alot to say what you just said as it seems to me to be getting towards
the stage of heresy to say what you just said. Although non duality always appears to be the most open of traditions in the world perhaps
it is the most closed ? Please don't compromise on your position to the intellectual tie folks up in knots replies that inevitably your post has received.
It seems to me now after trying to learn about non duality here that there is nothing but a type of point scoring intellectualism that goes on and there is no
wish to help or even awaken the person whom they address. Anyway somewhat synchronistically I wrote a post yesterday but was a little afraid to post it but when
i read your post i thought aha ! So here is my post I wrote before I saw your post



The Non Duality Rainbow

Just a few observations about what has been offered by the 'Non Duality' movement. I am generalising here of course when I say 'Non Duality' movement.
The rainbow refers to that familiar image of Gold at the end of the rainbow. Something for nothing, a wish fulfillment. The emperor's new clothes is another one.
The pretence that experiencing a state mostly during Satsangs is a lasting and effective way of coming to a lasting knowing, fulfilling answer to the human
condition which all spiritual paths set out to bring about.

The idea that Ramana Maharshi didn’t practice sadhana or spiritual austerity. The idea that Nisagardatta didn’t practice unflinchingly for 3 years
a certain meditative practice under the auspices of his Guru which brought him to awakening is very much abound and voguing.
Perhaps it’s a reflection of ‘the age’ internet too that every thing can be found on Google, even spiritual awakening hahaha !

As for linguistic gymnastics well lets say that has reached gold medal standard. All very fine indeed but not spiritual realisation or awakening
perhaps not even progress in that direction.

Thanks. Joe

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[JayTruther]

@Joe Mc

Thank you very much for your encouragement and kind words. I decided a while ago I just don't care what people say or think I can only speak MY truth from direct experience.

Your right that it seems others are not interested in helping anyone but just tie themselves up in knots or what I call mental gymnastics.

I've been practicing SBTs, space between thoughts for a few years which after a while flipped to space with some thought.
I count that as progress as its pretty much another way of just being aware of awareness but the guys on here don't care about that, just want to put there own bias likely regurgitated points across.

Your post is very well articulated and don't worry about what others just say whatever you need to say.

As it contains value, especially for the "non dualist" lol


@inavalon

Age ain't nothing but a number, did you not understand my post at all. I have said the seeing briefly happened here, so NOBODY is here doing ANYTHING.

Please explain to me what you "think" non duality is? In that answer you should understand that the ME your referring to that is ermmm....not mature or whatever doesn't actually exist.

P.S It took me a while to find a non dual forum with like minded folk. But as usual it turned sour quickly when I soon realised (some) people just wanna **** on my parade.
I don't mind and welcome a spanner in the works, a fly in the ointment when it makes me rethink my perspective. Yet none of this is that, its just ranting mostly.