On the nature of meditation

Meditation is what you make it, it does not matter what other people think.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

Could you elaborate on this part? I think I understand how thinking - without the constant chattering of the brain - could be enhanced, but what do you mean with the above?

By interference I mean intruding distractions. Think about trying to hear someone talking to you. It’s a whole lot easier if there aren’t a bunch of other people talking in the background. Similarly meditation is much easier without distractions from irrelevant emotions, music, or any other kind of commotion. Note that SOME stuff going on is actually relevant or even FROM you. This part should remain. At first it’s not so easy to tell which stuff is irrelevant distraction and which is important stuff. As one gains experience it becomes easier to identify the important stuff AND easier to let go (not banish) the irrelevant distracting stuff. As one gets better at this process, meditation becomes easier (without the distractions) (called a positive feedback loop in engineering). While at first meditation is a struggle (for most), at some point in development making progress is like rolling down hill, effortlessly easier and faster.

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

And meditation is a mode of expression? A state of being? But expressing something, like our inner nature would be more than simply being aware? I mean, you could theoretically be aware without expressing anything, right? Maybe I'm just getting confused...

Meditation is a mode of expression but not what I meant here. I meant music might be an important mode of expression for you. OR as per above might be a monumental distraction for you. Could be both.

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

Are we talking about being who I am on a spiritual level, as in "bringing this down to and shine through incarnation"? Or being who I am, including personality, emotions and everything, as in my "incarnated self"?

At the spiritual level as expressed through an incarnation vehicle (body). The key is to express your spiritual self at the incarnate level, to act in your own way to the situation you find yourself in. This is in contrast to your incarnation being led by the environment around it (following the crowd, following preprogramming, following societal norms, doing what you are told).

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

I think I see. So, can you describe, then, how this expressing of self, whilst other outer elements are stilled, feels?

Calm, peaceful, expansive.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

Experiencing life, incarnation, you mean? If so, what's the point? Isn't part of the point with incarnation to get "down and dirty" a little bit?

Lot's of questions, I know. And sometimes I may push a little extra to get a more elaborate view. Not to say I don't already have a view, mind you, but to better see and understand the coherency of others' thoughts :)

That's OK, questions are good for us all so we think a bit.

The experience is the passing, changing, coming and going, so the meditation isn't actually particular to the type of experience, it's being peaceful with the experience just as it happens to be.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Move the fingers of your hand. Feel the movement the pressure, how one finger may move against another. Where you not aware before, during and after the moment of your fingers? You were, so we can say that we are not our body, the sensations of the body. They are objects.


Actually, I think we can only conclude from this that I am not the sensation caused by the movement of my fingers. Whether or not I was aware before my body was created cannot, as I see it, be concluded from this, because even when I'm not sensing my fingers I'm sensing something else (pulse, temperature ect.). Not to say that I believe we are our bodies, cause I do not :)

The exercise what not about concluding whether you were or are Awareness before your body was created. It was to show you that you are Awareness now which the rest of your comment bares out.

A great book that explains it much better than I is: Beyond the Separate Self by Colin Drake. It cost $6 online.. it's worth it.

Originally Posted by Gem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
For example. How can you tell if something is loud? How can you tell if someone or something is fast? It is compared to the silence and stillness of that which is always present, that which is part of all things. Awareness, Presence, God, Allah, Krishna or Buddha. It is all the same.


Theoretically, even if there was never silence but always varying degrees of sound we would be able to determine what's loud and what's low by comparing the lows with the peaks. But I agrees that all is scaled by comparing it to other things.

Awareness is silence which all things are also compared to. Even if there was never any total silence just degrees of lows and peaks you are still comparing it to the silence that surrounds it.

Originally Posted by Gem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
An important point must be made. The effectivness of our sitting practice is not determined by how "deep" or the scenery (astral projection and the like) but how it effects our daily life. Are we happy? Are others noticing a change in you? Maybe they will notice the changes before you do. That is what is important, that is how we judge the effectivness of our practice.


That makes good sense, I think. Perhaps a part of the reason I'm inclined to stop trying to meditate and just listen to music - because it actually makes me happy.

That is the problem. You need a thing an object to make yourself happy. The objective of all of this is to realize that no thing or object can make you happy or unhappy. Your boredom is an emotion. A state of being that is temporary and fleeting. It is not you. With meditation, real meditation not staring at candle flames or listening to music you will develop inner silence in practice and out of practice. The emotions will lose their strength and attachments to you bit by bit falling into the inner silence that is you. It is freeing.

Let go and realize that you need no thing/music to be happy.

Originally Posted by Gem

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon
Experiencing life, incarnation, you mean? If so, what's the point? Isn't part of the point with incarnation to get "down and dirty" a little bit?

Lot's of questions, I know. And sometimes I may push a little extra to get a more elaborate view. Not to say I don't already have a view, mind you, but to better see and understand the coherency of others' thoughts :)

The point of reincarnation is to become Enlightened, to free yourself from the cycle of rebirth. Not all will hear the call for it. Not all are ready in this life at this time. I have seen people whose souls are so ready that within a month of learning to meditate they had reached the first stage of Enlightenment that of the Witness. I know people who's bodies are filled with ecstasy and there day's are lived in bliss. It is part of the journey, a part of what we are.

Or you can continue to stay with the ego. To let your desire for objects determine your happiness. Like your need and reliance on music to be happy.

[Gem]

Just to let youse know, I didn't post what is ascribed under my name in the post above (post previous to this one). If it can be edited, that'd be good.

[jonesboy]

Sorry Gem,

Thats harebrained post and my reply. I messed up and have no idea how to edit the post to fix it.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sorry Gem,

Thats harebrained post and my reply. I messed up and have no idea how to edit the post to fix it.

That's OK, I think you can only edit posts in the first few hours. Members will work it out if they ever read it at all, or maybe admin will fix it up...

[Miss Hepburn]

Jonesboy, I'm still lovin all your posts, btw.

Well, I actually think I'm kinda smelling what you're selling now

So thank you to all of you for your answers, you've been a great help!