Q: What does "no karma can lead to Jnana" mean?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 15 EXCERPT:optimal results, the faith transforms into confidence ... and into trust .. and into the complete/total surrender of "allowing".

I'm not sure where jhana was defined as divine wisdom, maybe in yoga, as all I know is the satipatthana with a few jhanas centred on equanimity, but not to take away wisdom which is big there as well. I just like real and tangible qualities like confidence and trust you mentioned. I like surrender as well, but tend to be a bit more specific about what you surrender is volition, iow 'allowing', but that's made difficult by tendencies to react, so I usually take the narrative away from what you need to do, like surrender, allow, etc., to what you need to stop doing, reacting.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 21 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not sure where jhana was defined as divine wisdom, maybe in yoga, as all I know is the satipatthana with a few jhanas centred on equanimity.

There is a difference between "jnana" and "jhana". You are correct that "jhana" is NOT defined as divine wisdom. Both the original poster and I have been talking about "jnana", a term which is also used in some schools of Buddhism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B1%C4%81na

[Ewwerrin]

I think jhana means paradise or heaven in arabic?

Translating translations of translations of old text is really nearly impossible. I know people who thought that Daoism implied no desire when it implied no yearning. And they didnt realise it untill right before the end of their life. It was weird and just weird.

Originally Posted by Gem

I like surrender as well, but tend to be a bit more specific about what you surrender is volition, iow 'allowing', but that's made difficult by tendencies to react, so I usually take the narrative away from what you need to do, like surrender, allow, etc., to what you need to stop doing, reacting.

The way I see it, reducing reactivity is a crucial first step. The Buddha pointed out reactivity with the "Second Arrow" parable.

A non-reactive mind also has the clarity and focus to explore the inner realm deeper and with more resolution. I think of it as a foundation for all other practices.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ iamthat #12, yes … we are definitely not alone in our spiritual journey. When we are all connected, forged from the single God-essence, there’s no question about this.

Everything is grace. As such, when we speak of surrender or non-doing, I submit that that our thought rested aliveness is in non-expectant animation, suspended in the void or let’s say, in no-thingness, wherein each flicker of heart’s desire is transmuted as soul yearning in an aspect of outcome released wonderment and trust. Thus, the will of God and our own is one, boundaries having blurred and our presence having melded with universal consciousness.

The key nuanced difference between … if we have to broadly classify (perhaps inaccurately) Buddhism vs Tantra, as of my vague understanding, is that cessation, surrender, letting go … instead of insipidness as a sort of phlegmatic silence, is replaced by a pure intent energised vivacity, unabashedly, allowing and also inviting the ineffable life force to surge through our this here mind-body in form as well as in expanded states, as is to be* (*acceptance) and yet signalling it’s humming potential in fullness as optimised* (*yearning of playfulness).

I don’t know if I’ve been able to get across the orientation sought to be portrayed but yes, I can affirm that then grace is always enabled, at all times, simply perhaps because we do not infuse any idea of separation. There is no seeking since there is no one here. Both the submerging and the emerging from there to here (both the same) negates nothing but rather transfigures or distils each pulse at any vibrational spectrum within the cauldron of Spirit or God-energy.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

"jnana", a term which is also used in some schools of Buddhism.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B1%C4%81na

OK. Different word apparently.

[Gem]

I'm altogether the opposite in saying we are entirely alone on the spiritual journey, but then again, I'm not a 'god essence' kinda guy, so have no disagreement even though I say the exact opposite. I'm just all practical and meaningful so 'no flowers and incense smoke' if you catch my drift.

Weirdly, I though Tantra was one of those weird branches of Buddhism, but probably wrong, and it doesn't matter. What matters is clarifying how intending or being deliberate is different from being volitional.

People might not be interested, I'm not sure, but it's like in practice you can intend to watch the breath and be determined, be deliberate about it, be what we call 'ardent', but no reaction, no volition, it is 'as it is'.

For example, common issue, mind wanders away, then you notice mind wandered away, no problem, resume meditation.

It's also like the difference between a wandering mind and a wild mind. A wandering mind is just meandering from one thing to the next, not disturbed or agitated, things are coming and going, whereas a wild mind is trying to grasp on this, avoid all that, not want this, desire that, become bored, impatient and so forth, which incites the volition or 'trying to make it not what it is (aversion) but what I want it to be (desire)'. That latter tendency is ingrained so you have to be ardently aware and deliberate about not doing that. Don't make the mistake that being deliberate is doing something when it's actually ceasing to do what you are already doing.

Since we get distracted and lose awareness of the ego tendencies which are so habitual, automated and normalised, we generate so much volition unintentionally. On the other hand we can be highly intentional and deliberate, ardent if you will, without generating any volition.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Gem

OK. Different word apparently.

YES !

"Jnana" and "Jhana" have almost identical spellings, but they are definitely two different words with different meanings, as you now know.

[Ewwerrin]

We are always reaching for unconditional alignment/allowance with/of true self. And the more you let go of reaching also, the more you allow and also let go of resistance.

As all trying/insistence is simply resistance to the eternal and infinite evermore natural and effortless and joyful being and becoming evermore here and now, under and all conditions, regardless of any and all conditions, unconditionally, energy motionally, vibrationally, capable of being felt by you emotionally, primarily evidentially/indicatoringly, and secondarily extensionally conditionally evidentially and indicatoringly.

And the more we emphasis the condition, the more we contradict the fact that we are eternally essentially the creator of those conditions. And then we suffer our conditions as secondary extensions of our vibrational self contradiction that is primarily indicated by the emotions, that indicate more resistance to the natural and effortless and joyful evermore here and now greater allowed realisation of all that we truely are being and becoming evermore naturally and effortless and joyfully here and now.

So that we can always simply unconditionally let go and allow, relax and enjoy. And come into evermore unconditionally natural and effortless and joyful greater allowed realisation of all that we truely are being and becoming evermore naturally and effortlessly and joyfully. Regardless of any and all conditions and under any and all conditions, unconditionally, energy motionally, capable of being felt by you primarily evidentially emotionally. And secondarily evidentially manifestationally.

Because manifestations are in essence, extensionally, also unconditional and vibrational and relative to you and your primarily relativity, which is the vibrational relationship between you and You, you and your evermore natural and effortless and joyful greater allowed realisation of all that You, your Greater Non-Physical Consciousness/GodSource, is evermore unconditionally, vibrationally, essentially unconditionally evermore being and becoming the evermoreness of all that you evermore and more want to be do or have, that it is being and becoming evermore naturally and effortlessly and joyfully ever expandingly here and now, where and when all that exists exists and is being and becoming evermore here and now also through you and your evermore inseperable and relative to it, greater allowed realisation or less of it/You and you in blended harmony more of less. Less discord more alignment more harmony and resonance. Always evidenced primarily by your emotional state of being and becoming. How you are doing on the allowing part. the effortless part of allowing. and enjoying. unconditionally and effortlessly.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

YES !"Jnana" and "Jhana" have almost identical spellings, but they are definitely two different words with different meanings, as you now know.

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