Do you think the Old Testament is made up?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Adults can 100% know something is not true (santa claus) and still teach their kids it is! Amazing.

Fantasy/frivolity is a normal and very healthy part of childrens development.
Santa came to my house and left me lots of lovely gifts I'm a child at heart, embracing childlike qualities, curiosity, wonder, and playfulness..... There's a time a place for everything under the sun...

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky

I remembered to tell you incase you'd forgotten

oh, yes, well, what was that? what were we talking about?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I would guess most of our experiential world is not real and is instead in our minds only. That's not to say the world is not real, it's to say most of our experience is sourced from mind. The real world is 100% there, but our experience of it is based on our thoughts about whatever is actually "out there."

yeah I've spent the greater part of my life balancing stories against each other, enough that I probably should be very confused at this point

for example, today I was thinking, (and assuming there are aliens that want to help with a problem that may not even exist lol) there is a story where the aliens are trying to help us 'find' ourselves. But there are actually two variations to the same story... in the first the aliens know exactly what there is to find and are just waiting for us to find it... in the second the aliens haven't a clue what there is to find beyond very broad strokes but the rub is they are waiting for us to find it anyway....

Two stories that say pretty much exactly the same thing, with the only variable being what the aliens might or might not know.

As with many things, there is no way I am going to be able to tell these two things apart and determine which is the 'best' story that fits the known facts... because to this day I don't have a way of proving what the 'aliens' might or might not know. That itself is just another subject for conjecture.

(as an aside if I replace 'aliens' with 'god' we know god knows everything so I don't have such a problem. But then once I decided there is a being/beings in this I was already faced with the next arbitrary conjecture of deciding whether or not they/it live in our physicality or are god lol so that doesn't get me anywhere 'real' either it just moves the goalposts)

But I do know I can choose one of thise stories arbitrarily and it will have an effect on how I feel. For example in the first I might feel comfortable because I'm not facing a complete unknown, and might even feel 'guided' by beings with more knowledge. In the second I wouldn't feel as comfortable maybe, because then there are no guard rails and I might just make something up that is horrible to live through while I am doing a major round of trial and error (grimace).

Same story just one subtle difference... and not a way to 'prove' which story best fits the facts.... such things drive me crazy because I wanna know definitively what is going on so I know how to properly behave so I can fit in but it is left for me to just make something up and live with whatever the results are? (shivers)

And just the fact of choosing one of those stories vs not choosing either one or anything similar... I might be tempted to act out if I choose one of those two, kinda play to the camera instead of being honest with myself? Whereas if I don't choose one that isn't such an issue and in fact I don't even have to worry about whether I'm playing this 'game' correctly....

This kinda thing happens to me so many times, so many ways... sometimes I wanna just stick my head in the sand

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

we know god knows everything

Seems to me if that was true we would not have free will. If God knows every choice we will make, there is only one choice we can make. If there is only one choice we can make, we are not free to make a different choice. So we are not free in our choices, they are pre-known. Meaning we are not in control of our choosing at all. It is all pre-determined. If God knows the future, the future is already pre-determined. If God knows what we will do, we can't do anything different.

So when faced with a choice, it's not a choice at all. There is only one we can make. The choice God knows we will make. That would mean we are basically robots running on a program, who think (are programmed to) believe they are not robots. If God knows our future, no need to worry about anything. It's all planned and nothing will alter it. If everything we will say, do, experience in the future is known by God, (who knows everything) we have no input in our future or what we will do or become or experience.

But the pre-determined choices can be such to give the illusion we are choosing when really, God knows the choice we will make at all times in advance.

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
[we know god knows everything]

I imagine God understands the universal laws of 'cause and effect'

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

oh, yes, well, what was that? what were we talking about?

I forgot....I surpose I could use my imagination though

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I would guess most of our experiential world is not real and is instead in our minds only. That's not to say the world is not real, it's to say most of our experience is sourced from mind. The real world is 100% there, but our experience of it is based on our thoughts about whatever is actually "out there."

The natural world is totally real. It's our developed mind that gets carried away, it creates imaginations and hopes and wants based on physical sensations. It creates an additional layer to our existence, and one that is false. We create our own little matrix world every day and we believe it to be real.

[FallingLeaves]

maisy - tocuhe you out-logiced me!

Originally Posted by Maisy

Seems to me if that was true we would not have free will. .

Yes, and with no free will we could not please or displease God. And would there be any purpose or necessity for judgment ?

[BigJohn]

Do you think the Old Testament is made up?

For me, looking at when the Old Testament was canonized: it has many parallels with how the Talmud came about.

Taking that into consideration: how could they have come about any better then they did?