We Are Perfect (as we are)?....

Originally Posted by amy green

Perfect lessons? Those calling themselves perfect don't seem to be on the learning path...this is why I started this thread!

Well, have fun with your word games. :-) I'm off to do something a little more constructive with my time..

Yeah Saggi - I knew you would say that you don't feel the need to change the world ....presumably because you see it through your eyes/being which is perfect? The world looks perfect to you? If so, do we share the same, real world (e.g. what's going on out there)?

Or is it that you realise that the world is NOT perfect but have no desire to change it?

[Saggi]

Originally Posted by amy green

Yeah Saggi - I knew you would say that you don't feel the need to change the world ....presumably because you see it through your eyes/being which is perfect? The world looks perfect to you? If so, do we share the same, real world (e.g. what's going on out there)?

Or is it that you realise that the world is NOT perfect but have no desire to change it?

Perhaps you could inform me how I could change the world, then I can decide for myself, on your preception, (cos I obviously must be missing something), A. whether it requires changing or B. whether it's within my capabilities?

Love and hugs

Jo

XxXx

Originally Posted by necta3

i note you said someone else was being aggressive too...maybe an angle of yours...i'd say the same in real life because thats what i think. i agree that if you relate its better so feel free...i think nearly everyone deludes themself in one way or another including you and me...if saying that makes me nasty to you then i think you have something to resolve too...



insight, as i see it, does not accept or reject...it just sees. the acceptance you speak comes over as an ego centred activity that is constructed to live with the pain...a resistance of acceptance. god is this god is that god is obviously a self projected concept of what you state is noble and holy...high sounding gratifying emptiness is what it sounds like to me...i suppose that makes me cruel?

Aggression that doesn't carry any compassion or valuable purpose in a discussion is to me pointless. I can see it sitting there alone and disconnected, and just floating about.
Sometimes anger has its function. But I didn't see it working very well in your argument. It's just silly. I find it embarrassing. It's not wrong, but it's not elegant. If it's how you like to 'shake things up' that's your perogative, but sometimes I will jump in to say what I think.

Originally Posted by Saggi

Perhaps you could inform me how I could change the world, then I can decide for myself, on your preception, (cos I obviously must be missing something), A. whether it requires changing or B. whether it's within my capabilities?

Saggi - You are choosing to see this as an absolute i.e. how one person can change the whole world...we both know this is ridiculous.

Are you then truly asking what in the real world needs changing? There are so many suffering out there - so many causes and ways we can all make a difference. I am sure you are bright enough to know the myriad ways we can all help to change the world ... assuming we would want to - e.g. people's movement, environmental campaigns, Amnesty....need I go on? Drops in the ocean but practical ways to help improve the world we live in. I am not trying to galvanise you here - just explaining/clarifying the issue.

@necta3:

If I stub my toe and it hurts then I won't get my knickers in a twist about it; I won't get upset about it. I see it happening, I don't deny that it hurt, and then I move on. Therefore I live through the physical pain of that moment without mental anguish. Without thought.

If someone is rude to me in the street and it hurts then there's nothing much I can do about my emotional reaction. I just watch myself in this reaction and ride out that wave. If I feel the need to say something back to the person I will, but sometimes I won't.

If someone stabs me in the leg. Ouch, well that's going to hurt isn't it? I'll get going to the hospital but it will still be painful. I'm not going to reject how that feels; that would be resistance. But at the same time I would not allow such an incident to destroy me. I would not accept any more than what had objectively happened. But I also might be a little angry at the person who did this. That's natural. I wouldn't deny that (If I felt it). Once the issue had been resolved though, I would move on, seeing as that pain would be in the past. The pain was accepted in the appropriate moment, then I moved into the next moment.

-

I'm not concerned with what name you give it. There is much needed room for pluralism in spiritual discussion. I am working behind the words. It doesn't bother me if you have a problem with the word 'god'.

I personally use 'ego' in a negative sense to mean 'seperated from'. Otherwise I use 'self'. Self has its role to play. Self is whatever makes us individual at any point in time. I associate it with free will and the inner character of a person. It's not separate, but it has its own distinction.

[sound]

Originally Posted by she who plays

If someone is rude to me in the street and it hurts then there's nothing much I can do about my emotional reaction. I just watch myself in this reaction and ride out that wave. If I feel the need to say something back to the person I will, but sometimes I won't.

Hi she who plays
I feel we can choose how we react emotionally to situations ... as you have pointed out above, you can choose to say something or choose not to ... you are choosing 'how' to react to what you are experiencing in that moment ...

[Arcturus]

Originally Posted by she who plays

Aggression that doesn't carry any compassion or valuable purpose in a discussion is to me pointless. I can see it sitting there alone and disconnected, and just floating about.
Sometimes anger has its function. But I didn't see it working very well in your argument. It's just silly. I find it embarrassing. It's not wrong, but it's not elegant. If it's how you like to 'shake things up' that's your perogative, but sometimes I will jump in to say what I think.

well it seems i can't disagree with you without being called aggressive or being accused of trying to "shake things up". i must say i felt anger and disdain in your words however i chose not to point it out and stick with what i saw as the debate. i must say i'm not keen on having what i see as my integrity brought into question, considering that the notion of speaking purely to shake things up is disdtastefull to me. i am not saying snything here i haven't said before in this thread. its what i truly think and believe. i will admit to certain difficulties i have in communicating with people, particularly in text, and i attempt to traverse that the best i can. anyway it seems there's little point continuing our interaction on this particular topic so unless you would specifically like a question answered i leave it be, tc and peace~

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Saggi

How can it not be?

Take the regarded as perfect flower in your avatar,,

Is it the smell alone that gives it is's beauty?

Is it the perfect formation of the petals?

Are the thorns that form along the stem, to protect the inner beauty, a unique part of it perfectness?

It's merely a safety thing to remove the thorns,,, If handled with some thought and attention, there's no need to fear them,,,

Of all the adaptations made within the growing world to re-create something from it's original form, I've never heard of someone trying to grow a thornless rose,,,

Love and hugs

Jo

XxXx

Jo... I don't know if you've ever grown roses but even the most exquisite blooms are subject to bugs, wilting and death.

Beauty of form is one thing... the perfection of flawless eternal oneness is quite another.


Xan

[Saggi]

Originally Posted by amy green

Saggi - You are choosing to see this as an absolute i.e. how one person can change the whole world...we both know this is ridiculous.

Are you then truly asking what in the real world needs changing? There are so many suffering out there - so many causes and ways we can all make a difference. I am sure you are bright enough to know the myriad ways we can all help to change the world ... assuming we would want to - e.g. people's movement, environmental campaigns, Amnesty....need I go on? Drops in the ocean but practical ways to help improve the world we live in. I am not trying to galvanise you here - just explaining/clarifying the issue.

No, I asked the question I meant to ask in response to this:

Originally Posted by amy green

Yeah Saggi - I knew you would say that you don't feel the need to change the world ....presumably because you see it through your eyes/being which is perfect? The world looks perfect to you? If so, do we share the same, real world (e.g. what's going on out there)?

Or is it that you realise that the world is NOT perfect but have no desire to change it?

'All helping'

That's assuming you know what my day/week/years/life involves and who or what I may or may not support, which you have built into a picture because you knew I would say I don't feel the need to change the world,,,

That's exactly why I consider the world to be perfect,,,

By following my own path, it allows others to follow theirs,,,

What could be more perfect than that?

Love and hugs

Jo

XxXx