The Problem of Human Suffering.

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm pulling out Ramana Stories... and maybe this one makes a distinction between pain and suffering?

For the last 2 years of his life the Maharshi suffered from cancer and experienced great physical pain, but even towards the end he maintained the same tranquil poise and self same radiant smile. When he was suffering from cancer in the arm a disciple ran away crying because he could not bear to see his master in pain. Ramana only smiled and spoke to a disciple nearby.
“Duraswami is crying because he thinks I am suffering agonies! My body is suffering but I am not suffering. When will he realise that I am not this body?”

I meant as in, we will always get sad, and angry, we will alway sfeel some sort of pain, and the world will always suffer (as we see it at least) fires, destruction and death, as much as it does live, hence the inevitability

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Time

I meant as in, we will always get sad, and angry, we will alway sfeel some sort of pain, and the world will always suffer (as we see it at least) fires, destruction and death, as much as it does live, hence the inevitability

Can't dispute that since I have observed it to be. I see it in mankind and also the amimals.

It's the passing of things, the desire to control and the aversion to unpleasantry the cravilng lusting and greed, but I think the aversion to unpleasantry causes men to avert their eyes from the behaviour, which leads to blindness to the consequence, and perpetuates what pete zen calls Karma.

Originally Posted by Gem

Can't dispute that since I have observed it to be. I see it in mankind and also the amimals.

It's the passing of things, the desire to control and the aversion to unpleasantry the cravilng lusting and greed, but I think the aversion to unpleasantry causes men to avert their eyes from the behaviour, which leads to blindness to the consequence, and perpetuates what pete zen calls Karma.

Exactly. People thinking suffering/pain as something that shouldnt be there, or something we can change is really avoiding reality IMO. Sure it sucks to see suffering, and we would want to alieviate it as much as possible, which is good, but disregarding a natural function/event is only doing yourself more harm in the end, and to the natural world, as we can see these days.

Perfection/harmony in reality doesnt exsist, only our own personal idea of such things, in nature there is always that balance between calm and calamity. Only striving for perfection (as the bible seems to do, or is usually interpreted as doing) is really only half the story.

[SeaZen]

Originally Posted by Time

Tbhe problem with human suffering, is that we think we can get away from it. Suffering is inevitable.

At this point in our evolution, I would say yes but IMO, it will one day vanish. Pain may still manifest, however, suffering is not the same thing as pain, suffering is our negative judgment about pain. Gem makes a good example of this about the maharishi going through cancer.

An important aspect of the spiritual path IMO is removing the judgment of pain thus eliminating suffering.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Time

Exactly. People thinking suffering/pain as something that shouldnt be there, or something we can change is really avoiding reality IMO. Sure it sucks to see suffering, and we would want to alieviate it as much as possible, which is good, but disregarding a natural function/event is only doing yourself more harm in the end, and to the natural world, as we can see these days.

Perfection/harmony in reality doesnt exsist, only our own personal idea of such things, in nature there is always that balance between calm and calamity. Only striving for perfection (as the bible seems to do, or is usually interpreted as doing) is really only half the story.

Interestingly enough, while people try to attain perfection, I am always pulled into the everyday life I have and look into the sensational/emotional experience ie, how things make me feel.

The balance... is something I see as a state of mind which knows things make me feel a certain way, but instead of reacting personally, I just feel, and I'm not detached from the feeling at all, actually I would more involved with it.

I call it balance so if something is painful I just feel it, it'll pass, and if something feels really wonderful, ok enjoy, and it'll pass. I find this simple nature of temporal things makes them unimportant to me personally, but they seem so precious because there are no ordinary moments, only passing moments, and I don't have like it, sometimes it's unpleasant and sometimes it'swonderful, but it is always changing, so this too will pass.

Perfect quote for that gem..

"Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why?
Some are born;
Some men die beneath one infinite sky.
There'll be war, there'll be peace.
But everything one day will cease.
All the iron turned to rust;
All the proud men turned to dust.
And so all things, time will mend.
So this song will end."

Pink floyd

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Time

Perfect quote for that gem..

"Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why?
Some are born;
Some men die beneath one infinite sky.
There'll be war, there'll be peace.
But everything one day will cease.
All the iron turned to rust;
All the proud men turned to dust.
And so all things, time will mend.
So this song will end."

Pink floyd

Glad you shared that, Tiime ~ using it in Loving Memories & Tributes to my son.

[Gem]

Yeah Time!

It's funny how people read tons of scriptures and I read hardly any, but since I was a young teen my philosophy formed through good music, so to my ears I can hear and distinguish the meaningful from the contrived and am attuned to a song's heart.

In this spiritual arena there are performers too, as if this were a stadium, and I can hear, just as I listen to music to the heart of these matters too.

It's when someone speaks with it, from what is deeper than the experience itself, the insight gained from experience. That's Rock and Roll baby!

Originally Posted by Gem

Yeah Time!

It's funny how people read tons of scriptures and I read hardly any, but since I was a young teen my philosophy formed through good music, so to my ears I can hear and distinguish the meaningful from the contrived and am attuned to a song's heart.

In this spiritual arena there are performers too, as if this were a stadium, and I can hear, just as I listen to music to the heart of these matters too.

It's when someone speaks with it, from what is deeper than the experience itself, the insight gained from experience. That's Rock and Roll baby!

Thats the thing about music: If it was made not to make money, but to actually express the musician in question, its a deep release emotionally, and is probably one of the more realistic ways of "remote writing", when you jsut write from the depths if your soul, and basically express pure emotion..

Ive read soem religious texts and listin to all sorts of music. Music always has a habit of catching your attention with just one line. Its also one of the best ways to exercise your inner demons safely, with no real harm. You can catch a snapshot of the writers mind at that moment when the song was written.

Tons of music is about suffering and loss. But the bottom line is expression.

[krishna]

Your suffering is of your own doing since day one on this planet.
All is Karma.
What goes round,comes round.
Be aware of your actions and thoughts.
The key to all Karma is INTENT.
Light wisdom and grace.
Krishna.