Original Sin?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Questionable Translations have changed the flavor of what the Bible actually says.........

but if we looked, we can probably find what it originally said..........
we just got to do some serious research.

I strongly suspect that "questionable translations have changed the flavor of what the Bible actually says" and that "we can probably find what it originally said".

However, I have one question for you. Do you believe that Truth can adequately be expressed in words even if we find what the Bible originally said?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

My observations are also that religions seem to disagree outwardly on many things but inwardly reach towards the same thing ultimately.

I see that as ' Individuality ' in oneness '

Originally Posted by davidmartin

i guess that is true. i just think there is one single God that exists that outwardly different religions disagree on but inwardly reach toward the same thing. they are different though in many ways. God does not seem to mind this
It is good to see a person find God there is something about them that's changed. But to fall out over the differences is not lead anywhere good but banter and rivalry is ok

Perhaps it is not so much reaching inwardly for God, but quieting the personal mind and ego enough to see and hear what is already there. Both Muslim and Hebrew traditions discourage or prohibit the making of graven images of God. Not so much I suspect because it angers God, but because the worshiper is liable to confuse the manufactured image for the true infinite God. When one sees what they think they are looking for, they tend to stop looking. Perhaps the graven image that we have the most difficulty recognizing as such, is the image of God we create within our own minds. The mind wants something to represent God. Unable to grasp the infinite and perfect, it creates a substitute and grasps it instead. If God lies at the core of our own being, then that false graven image we create within serves to distract us from searching deeper and realizing the divinity within ourselves. The true God will always remain a mystery beyond the grasp of the human mind and perhaps beyond the grasp of the individual soul.
It is when we embrace that mystery, accept that we cannot know or understand everything about life, then we can stop judging and condemning the world and those within it and start seeing and experiencing what is. It is all God, and it is all good. Even what seems evil to our limited human mind, and perhaps at our scale of understanding is evil, is ultimately part of God, is beautiful and is good.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by ketzer

The mind wants something to represent God. Unable to grasp the infinite and perfect, it creates a substitute and grasps it instead. If God lies at the core of our own being, then that false graven image we create within serves to distract us from searching deeper and realizing the divinity within ourselves. The true God will always remain a mystery beyond the grasp of the human mind and perhaps beyond the grasp of the individual soul.
It is when we embrace that mystery, accept that we cannot know or understand everything about life, then we can stop judging and condemning the world and those within it and start seeing and experiencing what is. It is all God, and it is all good. Even what seems evil to our limited human mind, and perhaps at our scale of understanding is evil, is ultimately part of God, is beautiful and is good.

couldn't agree more on the first part of this! I think this kind of thing also
I agree to looking out at the world from a higher perspective and seeing paradise and at all that, but I think evil can't be whitewashed

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I strongly suspect that "questionable translations have changed the flavor of what the Bible actually says" and that "we can probably find what it originally said".

However, I have one question for you. Do you believe that Truth can adequately be expressed in words even if we find what the Bible originally said?

I do not know. I have not got there yet.

Some days I think the Bible is bogus....... and then I study it a little more, especially in Hebrew and Greek..... and then it appears to hold a lot more secrets.

The Bible is in many ways like the place where I live now. The politicians claim the city was founded in 1775 but the plague outside the city clerk's office claims the village became a city in 1877 (actually on 7/7/77 at 7 ..... PM).
The city's name comes from an Indian village that was in existence at least in the late 1600's according to period maps. The Indian village was in existence at the 1775 date so try to figure it out.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I do not know. I have not got there yet.

Some days I think the Bible is bogus....... and then I study it a little more, especially in Hebrew and Greek..... and then it appears to hold a lot more secrets.

The Bible is in many ways like the place where I live now. The politicians claim the city was founded in 1775 but the plague outside the city clerk's office claims the village became a city in 1877 (actually on 7/7/77 at 7 ..... PM).
The city's name comes from an Indian village that was in existence at least in the late 1600's according to period maps. The Indian village was in existence at the 1775 date so try to figure it out.

I wish I knew Syriac my favourite scripture is written in it. I did try a little Coptic. It's not so hard that language.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

I see that as ' Individuality ' in oneness '

Some express it as "unity in multiplicity". It's the same idea though it's interesting to see whether "individuality" or "oneness" is expressed first.

In Judaism, the Kabbalistic interpretation of "Echad" (Literally "one") as posited by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan is that "there is no plurality" and that, ultimately, "we are all one with God".

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I do not know. I have not got there yet.

Some days I think the Bible is bogus....... and then I study it a little more, especially in Hebrew and Greek..... and then it appears to hold a lot more secrets.

The Bible is in many ways like the place where I live now. The politicians claim the city was founded in 1775 but the plague outside the city clerk's office claims the village became a city in 1877 (actually on 7/7/77 at 7 ..... PM).
The city's name comes from an Indian village that was in existence at least in the late 1600's according to period maps. The Indian village was in existence at the 1775 date so try to figure it out.

There was one particular point in your post that really commanded my attention.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Some days I think the Bible is bogus....... and then I study it a little more, especially in Hebrew and Greek..... and then it appears to hold a lot more secrets.

There is a book by the Kabbalistic Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan called Meditation and the Bible. He would certainly agree with your statement that the Hebrew Bible "appears to hold a lot more secrets". In his book, Rabbi Kaplan analyzes the hidden secrets of the Bible to determine how the Hebrew prophets reached their exalted prophetic states. It's a radical departure from traditional orthodoxy as he examines all the hints contained in the Biblical verbiage while stating explicitly that the authors did not intend to reveal the keys to prophecy. Nonetheless their choice of words do reveal the secrets for one who is as attuned as Rabbi Kaplan.

You might want to read that book as I think that you would enjoy it immensely as a tool for discovering "a lot more secrets" in the Hebrew Bible written by a wise Rabbi who understands the subtleties of the Hebrew language.

(I also agree with your statement that parts of the Bible might not be as inspired as we would like to believe as prophets must be very wary of allowing their own personal and cultural stuff to creep into their revelatory writings. Keep in mind that most of the "prophets" contemporary to Jeremias gave King Zedekiah "prophetic advice" conflicting with Jeremias' prophecy and Zedekiah paid a big price for his decision. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Babylonian captivity could probably have been avoided if Jeremias' TRUE prophetic advice had been heeded.)

Originally Posted by davidmartin

couldn't agree more on the first part of this! I think this kind of thing also
I agree to looking out at the world from a higher perspective and seeing paradise and at all that, but I think evil can't be whitewashed

What is evil that cannot be redeemed?

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by ketzer

What is evil that cannot be redeemed?

redeemed it may be, but also fought against until it is i recon