Observer vs Observed

[sky]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Yes, Like I said, "the root problem is your ego doing something based on your ego's limited and incomplete memory, knowledge, information, beliefs etc etc, which are your ego's past experiences."

Do you say that because you think the ego is so called "bad"? Doing something is not a problem when you do something that is aligned with consciousness/non-duality in the eternal right here and now present moment, because doing so is not based on memory/a past experience. Your ego is aligned/connected to consciousness/non-duality so, it is still your ego when you do something that is aligned/connected to consciousness/non-duality. This means, the ego is not 'bad" if you think the ego is "bad".

Never said ego is bad , love my ego....

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Undoing something in this case, is not doing something, so how can not doing something, be doing something? Sometimes you have to work the problem out step by step.

Regarding the process - whether one regards it as a doing or an undoing - like the dismantling of a dam in order to 'free' a river to 'flow', which may be regarded as an 'undoing' of the dam or a 'doing' which expands the channel wherein and whereby the river may flow - here's a pertinent (I think) quote from my (freely downloadable) treatise:

My hope is that the time-space transcendental perspective and associated commentaries pertaining to Life’s worldly Flow presented here will facilitate folks more wittingly deploying their Love and Joy capabilities in creative conjunction with others around them, whatever their present physiosocial (including any school, line of teachers and/or group affiliation) context, by utilizing their own (unique!) soul’s awareness and motive constellation in furtherance of Its (hence also their own) Love and Joy growth-venture aspirations in said context, whatever the parameters and aim‑focus of these may then and there be. Even so however, any and everyone’s psychospiritual process being so multi-factor determined and fluidly moment-to-moment variable as to only be approximately known, felt and related to (by way of ‘normal’ consciousness and cognition, that is), and what one thinks and feels in relation and response to any given stimulus at any given point pretty much just being a function of one’s 'history' prior to one’s arrival at such point in any case, I more than anything else recommend that you (anyone!) primarily rely on the results of your earnestly praying, that is, of your intentionally desiring and attitudinally expecting, to be shown (by capital ‘M’ Mind) whatever, if anything, you may (presently) not be seeing which it might be better for you to see (‘better’ in terms of leading you in a ‘greater’ Love and Joy Life‑Flow direction), and that you also be sparked and spurred (by capital ‘S’ Spirit) to ‘do’ whatever would be best in that case (‘best’ by virtue of your consequently becoming as Love and Joy Flow-augmenting as you can possibly be in such vein).* The rationale here being (1) that the Reality, or Nature, of (all!) Being-n-Doing is such that every soul ultimately has to ‘find’ its own way to grow and continue to flourish, that is if it is to continue to grow and flourish; and (2) that mentally and emotionally tapping into the capital ‘P’ Power of your (it is ours, really!) supranodal capital ‘S’ Soul is your (anyone’s!) ‘best bet’ in this regard.

[Footnote*: It is in relation to actualizing such maximum possible Love and Joy experience and expression that the advice, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you,” (Matthew 7:7) may be put to the most ‘profitable’ use because it is then focused on ‘activating’ the primary ‘program’ of Life Itself!]

What do you know David's peddling his book again. You sir would make a good door to door salesman.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

What do you know David's peddling his book again. You sir would make a good door to door salesman.

Except I am 'peddling' as you call my educational sharing for no charge in an arena where people who are ostensibly interested in exchanging views pertaining to Spiritual development/evolution/philosophy choose to come 'outdoors') (so to speak) to see, hear and say whatever may possibly be relevant to said subject.

Your 'contribution' (if it may be called that instead of 'a detraction') in said regard is noted for what it is.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Except I am 'peddling' as you call my educational sharing for no charge in an arena where people who are ostensibly interested in exchanging views pertaining to Spiritual development/evolution/philosophy choose to come 'outdoors') (so to speak) to see, hear and say whatever may possibly be relevant to said subject.

Your 'contribution' (if it may be called that instead of 'a detraction') in said regard is noted for what it is.

As others are aware and I'm sure you are too is that in the narcissistic Circle of metaphysical and spiritual groups it is quite common for a person to put in a great deal of effort and work with a little to no Financial return on their efforts this is because it's usually Justified through admiration attention and submission of authority
Much like in the Christian Community many small churches have pastors that don't even pull a salary but they do it for the power title and stature and that "feeling special" feeling one gets when they are looked up to for there information.
So so in the metaphysical /spiritual/ religious community monetary return is of little importance when determining motivation.

Edit after some investigation I'm actually surprised that 95% of all threads DavidSon has commented in have a comment in there promoting his book with a quote just like in the above comment I mean I know he was trying to use this website to start a movement of his own but I didn't realize he'd be bold enough to mention it and every thread he comments on.
LOL I can just see it now haha he's on a Mopar forum and somebody's like "any tips for making changing the oil easier?" And he posts "well as I said before in my free downloadable PDF link in the description" haha

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by sky123

Never said ego is bad , love my ego....

I did not say or think you thought the ego was "bad" That is why.I asked you do you think the ego is "bad" and used the word -if- at the end I love my ego too

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

As others are aware and I'm sure you are too is that in the narcissistic Circle of metaphysical and spiritual groups it is quite common for a person to put in a great deal of effort and work with a little to no Financial return on their efforts this is because it's usually Justified through admiration attention and submission of authority
Much like in the Christian Community many small churches have pastors that don't even pull a salary but they do it for the power title and stature and that "feeling special" feeling one gets when they are looked up to for there information.
So so in the metaphysical /spiritual/ religious community monetary return is of little importance when determining motivation.

Edit after some investigation I'm actually surprised that 95% of all threads DavidSon has commented in have a comment in there promoting his book with a quote just like in the above comment I mean I know he was trying to use this website to start a movement of his own but I didn't realize he'd be bold enough to mention it and every thread he comments on.
LOL I can just see it now haha he's on a Mopar forum and somebody's like "any tips for making changing the oil easier?" And he posts "well as I said before in my free downloadable PDF link in the description" haha

I understand and accept that this is how you see and understand my motivation. I am not involved in and have no interest in being associated with a group 'movement' though I am deeply desirous of having the perspective and philosophy I have developed, which I is much 'greater' than any single piece I quote from my treatise and which think is very relevant and potentially (IMO) positive change inducing in relation to 'the human condition', seriously considered and discussed. Hence my continued posting of links in the context of the samples I offer in relation to things people raised for discussion whereby said treatise may be downloaded by anyone interested.

So far 'takers' in this regard have been few. This is my life's work which I imagine I will continue till I am not longer able to (I am 77 years old now). BTW my first book, Godspeak 2000 (which I also quote from and offer as a free download), took 20 years to compose! BTW, I hope you have noticed that I also frequently quote from other sources and offer links to webpages which promote the perspectives and philosophies these offer.

I would be very interested in engaging with any such serious consideration and forum discussion of the content of my work, including with you.

you managed to figure out how to work that in such a way you could advertise again. There are probably few takers because well iceberg lettuce taste the same it doesn't matter what type of name they give it on the salad menu and people prefer meat over word salad nine times out of 10 so it could be a Content issue. I'm fully aware that you don't want to follow anybody I can relate to you in that aspect difference being I don't want to lead anybody and you obviously want to lead and create a long lasting Legacy of spiritual belief of one kind or another.

but I'll probably be ignoring any replies in the future that I may get from you because I'm going to consider you a commercial and not a person due to your repeated attempts at promoting yourself which gives the appearance of having a lack of sincerity do to the consistency and the obvious mentality of coming here to teach and not to learn yes I realize you're going to say you're here to learn something and you're going to say something that goes against everything I'm just said in an attempt to re-establish integrity and I'm sure you'll do a great job at it . have a good day

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes I know what SW meant, but the undoing is still done using ego

Pir Vilayat Khan, the Sufi mystic under whom I once practiced, has said: "The ego is very important until one no longer needs it".

The intellect is indeed very important until it discovers that intellect is not sufficient and one must go beyond.

I liked MikeS80's perspective on thinking ---- searching through our memories during decision-making processes. One discovers that one's database --- no matter how extensive --- is not sufficient to see the really Big Picture. Intellect (and its companion, "ego") is a tool to resurrect one's self from the mundane "into God" (consciousness), as the Sufis put it.

Your statement is neither right nor is it wrong.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

you managed to figure out how to work that in such a way you could advertise again. There are probably few takers because well iceberg lettuce taste the same it doesn't matter what type of name they give it on the salad menu and people prefer meat over word salad nine times out of 10 so it could be a Content issue. I'm fully aware that you don't want to follow anybody I can relate to you in that aspect difference being I don't want to lead anybody and you obviously want to lead and create a long lasting Legacy of spiritual belief of one kind or another.

but I'll probably be ignoring any replies in the future that I may get from you because I'm going to consider you a commercial and not a person due to your repeated attempts at promoting yourself which gives the appearance of having a lack of sincerity do to the consistency and the obvious mentality of coming here to teach and not to learn yes I realize you're going to say you're here to learn something and you're going to say something that goes against everything I'm just said in an attempt to re-establish integrity and I'm sure you'll do a great job at it . have a good day

I 'get' your reasoning and 'see' how it leads to your 'judgment' of me, Maya.

Yes, as openly declared in http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=105, my soul's calling is to be a 'teacher' (of what I 'learn'). My bio (quoted from my book ) : "DS was born and raised in India, of a British mother and an Indian father. His degrees include a Bachelor’s in Physics from Williams College, a Masters in Teaching from Harvard University, and a Doctorate in Counseling Psychology from Columbia University. He has served as a science teacher, administrator, psychotherapist and spiritual mentor and counselor. His cross-cultural background and interdisciplinary experience make him a uniquely qualified vehicle for a work such as this."

Also, from the preamble of the book: "Please note: I wrote the book in a very authoritative, ‘know-it-all’ kind of ‘voice’ because I hoped, back then (it was completed in 1999), to thereby impact people who were rigidly locked into belief-systems (such as ‘Western Science’ and extant ‘World Religions’, which were thought to be absolutely complete and/or completely true) in a way which (I then thought) would have the best chance of ‘busting’ them ‘open’ them to seeing things in a broader perspective (then believing, quite erroneously) that it was necessary, and therefore desirable, to ‘fight’ authoritative∙ness with authoritative∙ness.

I have since learned (that is, I became ‘open’ to knowing) that such an approach is not only ineffectual in relation to unquestioning ‘believers’ but that it also ‘turns off’ people who are inclined to see and think for themselves, in an independent manner. My ‘appeal’ (now) is to genuinely open-minded folks who are (only) interested in sampling the perspectives and value-schemes of others as a means of enriching and enhancing the further development and refinement of their own personal world-views and derivative philosophies. To that end, I invite prospective readers to overlook the authoritative∙ness of the style in which this book was written. It doesn’t reflect how I truly feel or what I am really about. I ask that you please simply entertain and evaluate the ideas and suggestions presented therein for their possible creative pertinence, either as presented or as personally modified in ways which you think will be more positively functional."

And, in case the topics addressed in it are of heartfelt interest to others following this 'argument', here is the book's Table of Contents which indicate what 'I' as an 'observer' have 'observed' (and so concluded as being 'true'):

"Ch.1 - An Overview of Life's Dynamics (Painted in very broad brush strokes)

Ch.2 - A More Detailed Analysis (Why aren’t we in a harmoniously creative
state? In fact, why, at so many times and places, does the very opposite hold true?)

Ch.3. - Ways of Dealing With ‘the Problem’ (A critical analysis of efforts to date)

Ch.4 - A Positive Prognosis (For those who unselfishly dedicate themselves)

C.5 - A Call and Guide to Constructive Action (Emphasizing what is most important and effective)

Ch.6 - Creative Relationship (Avenue to the Ultimate)"


As an aspect of Love and Joy, wishing everyone here (and, by extension elsewhere) the best possible Life ...

Sincerely -