how do you talk about mindfulness?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Residing in that way to be, do you think one could just call it emptiness? You are still fully there of course but not there as somebody or something, just aware of whatever is moment to moment.

I follow this philosopher on You Tube, and I'm not a fan of Sam Harris, but I think this is pretty good philosophy of mindfulness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPnTy_wTxL4

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Gem

I follow this philosopher on You Tube, and I'm not a fan of Sam Harris, but I think this is pretty good philosophy of mindfulness

Awesome thanks. When the student is ready the teacher will appear. Just yesterday I was responding to a post and I responded with a long post... that I did not post but just saved it to a text file on my computer. Seems too long to post and I'm not sure I understand all of it yet. When responding it is just a thought stream. I am concentrating on an idea and out comes the words from who knows where. Idea after idea, sentence after sentence. I wrote like 9 paragraphs. But some new stuff came out I had never thought of before kind of mind blowing to me. New ways to think about things. I feel like I am still processing the ideas that appeared in my thought stream that I typed out. I think I have to somehow try to merge them with what I knew... but then they seem like such a different way to look at things or understand things. Looking forward to listening to that video.

When the student is ready the teacher will appear. When the student is truly ready... The teacher will Disappear.”
― Tao Te Ching

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

When the student is ready the teacher will appear. When the student is truly ready... The teacher will Disappear.”
― Tao Te Ching

That's another 'Fake' quote Maisy, it's not found in the Tao Te Ching. From what I remember the only time 'Student' is mention is Chapter 41

The superior student listens to the Way

And follows it closely.

The average student listens to the Way

And follows some and some not.

The lesser student listens to the Way

And laughs out loud.

If there were no laughter it would not be the Way.

The 'Fake' quote actually reminds me of the Buddhas 'Raft' Parable.....

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

That's another 'Fake' quote..

I think there's really no way to tell if it is fake or not as we have no recording of everything a person said. Like Buddha could give a public talk and say a bunch of stuff then go talk to his cook about what he wants for dinner. Then he talks to somebody about keeping the deer out of the gardens or whatever. Talks to one of his wives about something. Talks to his mother about her work as a nun. None of those conversations are written down anywhere. Buddha and Lao Tzu probably said zillions of things we have no record of. Then of course Buddha did not ever say what he said or write anything down so we have somebody else saying what he said. Zero way to record audio in those days as well. No videos either. Imagine listening to a two hour lecture then going home and trying to write down what was said word for word lol. That's if you could write which few could in those days.

[Redchic12]

Sky. I just love that verse!!!

And I so agree.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Sky. I just love that verse!!!

And I so agree.

Yes it's a laugh .
I find Taoism very interesting and so deep... My Tai Chi Master was Taoist and explained each move as to how it fitted into ' The Way', not that I always understood at first glance though It's about feeling rather than words I think...

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think there's really no way to tell if it is fake or not

Well yes we do, it's been quoted by yourself and others as being written in the 'Tao Te Ching' which it isn't...
The Tao Te Ching is a Chinese classic text and the foundational work of 'Taoism' traditionally credited to the sage Laozi, your Quote cannot be found in the Text.
For example, Jesus said 'worship satan' and Quoted as being a teaching from Jesus found in the 'Bible', the 'Quote' is 'Fake' and not part of the Bible.....

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

For example, Jesus said 'worship satan' and Quoted as being a teaching from Jesus found in the 'Bible', the 'Quote' is 'Fake' and not part of the Bible.....

It's a pretty interesting topic I think. A huge percentage of Christians don't believe in hell (some don't believe in Satan - nor all having sin etc) - see here : https://www.pewresearch.org/religion...elief-in-hell/ That means they may believe fake quotes by Jesus are in the bible. Of course just because we don't believe in something that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Nor does it mean Jesus did not believe in it or know it to exist. But some people basically claim or believe things to be fake they themselves decide are not true or don't want to believe in. They may or may not be fake.

I found this online. The accounts of meetings of "Buddha's" followers after his death do not refer to Gutama as the Buddha but as bhagavan (lord), however once the title was adopted it became the primary designation for Gutama and assumed a central role within Buddhist thought and practice. If there was no one named or referred to as "Buddha" founding Buddhism, then yea lol. It would be like my followers naming me Visnada when my name was Maisy and starting a religion saying Visnada said this and that when no person with that name existed.

Then also characters in religions like Buddhism and other religions may just be that. Characters made up, fictional characters. Beings that are blue, or half elephant, or that have special powers, or lived 800 years, that can levitate or fly, did miracles or things we humans simply can't do. If no person actually existed with those traits, "quotes" by them are untrue in a way eh. Well plus who is writing down what they supposedly said? Well in most world religions I think, maybe all, others put down what the "person" supposedly said from memory with perhaps zero first hand knowledge or experience. Then the character's could be made up in various ways. Then paraphrasing can be involved as well. Changing words, changing meaning, though translating or just paraphrasing.

But then to me none of this matters. People believe what they want or what their brains tell them is true. None of this means what people believe is true or real. In this tread some believe "healthy ego's exist" and some believe they don't. Both ideas can't be true. Something exists in reality or it doesn't. But then beliefs create mental realities one can carry. If I believe the sky is green and define green as blue in my thoughts, then it is green eh lol. To that person anyway. So one cannot even say such a person is wrong as they are not. They are just defining or using words differently. Then using words is also a type of false reality. There are no apples in the world for example. A thing exists that we arbitrarily decided to name that. But it in itself does not have that name.

[Maisy]

I think that quote is an attempt to write something down some may believe is "spiritual" or wise or meaningful in some way. We believe whatever our minds tell us is true. Though I believe we have the potential not to.

"The superior student listens to the Way, And follows it closely."

I think it's poetic to use the word "listen" when one might be reading such things. But then listen means to hear so the quote states a teacher is speaking "the way" whatever that is (it is not defined in this quote) and a superior (the best) "student" is listening and "follows" the teachings closely. They are holding onto the teachings like gold! They are following them.

"The average student listens to the Way. And follows some and some not.
The lesser student listens to the Way And laughs out loud."

Here again people are being put into categories by how they are reacting to this teaching about "the way." Ideas of some students being superior, average, and lesser depending on how they react to this teaching. Really all religions have similar concepts. The "superior" persons are the ones that believe in the teachings and follow them, the persons who don't believe or mock it, laugh etc are bad in some way or going to be punished or whatever. They won't get whatever "prize" or "reward" is being assumed to come to those who follow "the way." One obvious claim in the quote is they won't be superior to others unless they follow the teachings. They won't be the best.

But then I think the Zen like twist comes in the last line of the quote. If one sees it that way anyway. The meaning is subjective and one can get any meaning they want out of it. Our brains tell us what we are reading and what to focus on and what meaning is there if any. The reader may get a totally different meaning than the writer of it intended or had. A reader also can say the quote is good or bad. Again subjective and both can be "right" as who knows what meaning they are seeing or inferring. Someone can say they like the quote and not get the true meaning of it at all.

"If there were no laughter it would not be the Way."

The quote had just said the lesser student listens to the Way and laughs out loud. The worse student is laughing and the last line of the quote says the way includes laughing! So is following the way a good thing to the writer of this? I would say no. That's the Zen like twist at the end I see. The reader at first assumes the "superior" student is actually the best student. That following the way is the best thing to do. This is how the world typically judges things. Those who follow are the best. Then follows the ideas of the average students who may or may not follow the way and lesser students who just laugh at it. The lesser students are not involved with an opinion about the way at all. To them it's not a matter of following or not following. They have zero interest in the idea at all. They just laugh at it. Then the zinger line at the end, the way is one of laughter.

The "superior student" actually was the lesser student who was not a student at all! Both the teacher and the superior student are not living or embodying the teachings. They "follow" them. "The way" is external to who and what they are. What are they following? Ideas and concepts and beliefs. A dualistic and thought idea based life and living. A seeker and what they are seeking all invented mental conceptual reality, "someone" seeking or following a something. All built of thought or one focusing the attention there.

To me it's pretty simple. The way is to be realized, lived, embodied. It is not something to seek or "carry." (follow as an idea or concept) The lesser students were not students, following someone else in itself is bad. The lesser students are not listening to or interested in teachings about "the way" at all. They live it, are it.

But these ideas are all over the the "teachings."

“Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.”
― Lao Tsu, Tao Teh Ching

“When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everyone will respect you.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,
They will say, “We did this ourselves.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

"I alone possess nothing.
I alone drift about,
like someone without a home.
I am like an idiot, my mind is so empty."

From chapter 20

On and on it goes. You can’t know it, but you can be it, chapter 14,
Not-knowing is true knowledge chapter 71, The more you know, the less you understand. chapter 47 When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you. chapter 44 When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. 48

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Gem

I follow this philosopher on You Tube, ...

I was hoping they were going to go more into that first part, about the origin of thought but they kind of dropped it and went into other things. I find that topic pretty interesting. We humans make computers. The computers can then do somethings better and faster than us. Our brain does a billion calculations a second. Doesn't seem like conscious awareness (what we are) can do any of that lol. Could it be we are somehow merged with a super computer, the brain? Something we created (created while not in human form obviously) It's like making a robot then implanting our consciousness in it.

The things we create can do so much more than us. Look at the wire in my house that is connected to the internet. One wire! I sometimes have 3 computers in my space all doing different things, playing different games for example, maybe one or two streaming a movie or video, or searching Amazon, while on the phone talking to someone 3000 miles away. All of this is somehow in that one wire at the same time? I speak and get a response instantly on my phone and computer...3000 miles away? Instantly? How is this stuff even possible? How is all of this in one wire? I think a lot of times we don't even know how it is working it just does. What is electricity and why does it act like it does? Some kind of moving energy in a wire. Amazing stuff then our bodies also have an electrical system.

Could it be these energy bodies of conscious awareness created human bodies and brains, a kind of biological robot computer, and then found a means of merging with them for a incarnation? Makes human life seem like a kind of game these energy based awareness's are playing. A simulated reality one can go do like a vacation or fun free time. It could be in energy form we can't even talk. Some new age books, mediums etc have said in the astral world, we communicate telepathically so don't have a mouth that speaks. Again, doing something with a created body we can't do without it.