Original Sin?

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Explorer21

The so-called "Fall of Man" in the Bible was NOT a fall into sin and evil, but simply the descend from higher dimensions (called "the Garden of Eden") into the denser vibrations of the 3rd dimension of Earth. The descent of mankind into grosser levels of matter was for the purpose of the soul gaining greater evolutionary experience. "Original Sin" is a figment of judgemental imaginations.

haha, the new age gospel get's it all wrong! Yes, original sin is not the reason we are here. It is about the origin of sin itself which existed long before humanity, but the enemy of God is satan who wishes to spread sin and death around and also, deceive. All this stuff about gaining experience just normalises evil like Trump does with his behaviour on Twitter has become accepted as normal. satan is ruling over the denser vibrations and his minions don't have a glass eye and a roll-up.The Christian message is turn to the true God and away from the enemy. The enemy has no concern for evolutionary experience but wants to turn the world into hell and make us torture each other. The true God, as revealed by Jesus, who is totally love is really the only God, one source of everything. He reveals evil is really bad and good is really good. He teaches how to do good and banish evil with this knowledge. Yes, Christianity is a mess, but so is all religions including your 'new age'. True followers of any religion can discover the true God if they start thinking like Jesus and becoming more like him. But this compromising of evil is not allowed, as it is a spiritual war that is going on
Original sin is a teaching of the enemy that tries to make God look unjust and vengefull. No that is satan. So it is a mistaken idea incompatible with the grace of God. On that you are right

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

haha, the new age gospel get's it all wrong! Yes, original sin is not the reason we are here. It is about the origin of sin itself which existed long before humanity, but the enemy of God is satan who wishes to spread sin and death around and also, deceive. All this stuff about gaining experience just normalises evil like Trump does with his behaviour on Twitter has become accepted as normal. satan is ruling over the denser vibrations and his minions don't have a glass eye and a roll-up.The Christian message is turn to the true God and away from the enemy. The enemy has no concern for evolutionary experience but wants to turn the world into hell and make us torture each other. The true God, as revealed by Jesus, who is totally love is really the only God, one source of everything. He reveals evil is really bad and good is really good. He teaches how to do good and banish evil with this knowledge. Yes, Christianity is a mess, but so is all religions including your 'new age'. True followers of any religion can discover the true God if they start thinking like Jesus and becoming more like him. But this compromising of evil is not allowed, as it is a spiritual war that is going on
Original sin is a teaching of the enemy that tries to make God look unjust and vengefull. No that is satan. So it is a mistaken idea incompatible with the grace of God. On that you are right

I am questioning your comment that I bolded.

[b]John 1:18 claims:
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself
God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

The first God mentioned is written in Greek as:

Θεὸν

is not the same Greek word for the second God mentioned.
The second God mentioned is written as:

Θεὸς

Is the above scripture wrong because people have seen Jesus. But you claim Jesus is God which appears to
be a major contradiction of the above cited scripture. Definitely the two words were 'mistranslated' as God
because they are 2 separate words.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

believe it or not, i think the western view derives from sola scripture, meaning adopting Paul's theology and dismissing all previous traditional views out of hand no matter how ancient. In the western view, Paul's theology is the word of God pretty much so there isn't much wiggle room. What I mean is absent other world views they take Pauls and because the blood sacrifice is found in Paul's theology they adopt his mindset and obsessions. But its evident he was competing against other views which makes him a theologian and a powerful one but one of many. Many interpretations are possible about Jesus and the experience of following him without having to feel obligated to take Paul's every word as scripture, a man Jesus never knew or mentioned but who spoke from his own experience just like we do. This might sound like heresy but it's not, it's the search for truth and being free to believe based on all the inputs. Some will follow in one way and some in another, that is all ok. The door is wide open.

As I am discovering with the Eastern Orthodox Church, eastern Christianity does not believe in "sola scriptura" (only the scriptures) although eastern Christians understandably do show appropriate reverence for the scriptures. Many western churches do indeed rely on "sola scriptura", as you duly noted, and don't believe in any further revelation until the "second coming of Jesus". Personally, I do not accept the "sola scriptura" position.

As you also duly noted, a lot of western theology is based on Paul and I too do not feel obligated to take Paul's every word as scripture. Augustine took Paul's statement that "Jesus died for our sins" to CREATE hereditary original sin which serves as a basis for the "blood sacrifice". That original sin theory led to infant baptisms because unbaptized infants went to hell --- or so Augustine thought. Thomas Aquinas corrected this to say that unbaptized infants instead went to limbo.

Thus did a lot of questionable theology arise (IMHO - in my humble opinion )

Thanks for bringing up these points.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I am questioning your comment that I bolded.

[b]John 1:18 claims:
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself
God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

The first God mentioned is written in Greek as:

Θεὸν

is not the same Greek word for the second God mentioned.
The second God mentioned is written as:



Θεὸς

Is the above scripture wrong because people have seen Jesus. But you claim Jesus is God which appears to
be a major contradiction of the above cited scripture. Definitely the two words were 'mistranslated' as God
because they are 2 separate words.

I go to a "Questioning Christianity" group on Thursday evenings (tonight is next session) and your posts like the one above are absolutely invaluable to me.

They are very consistent with my meditative insights and intuition, but you have some excellent concrete supporting facts.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I go to a "Questioning Christianity" group on Thursday evenings (tonight is next session) and your posts like the one above are absolutely invaluable to me.

They are very consistent with my meditative insights and intuition, but you have some excellent concrete supporting facts.

Questionable Translations have changed the flavor of what the Bible actually says.........

but if we looked, we can probably find what it originally said..........
we just got to do some serious research.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I am questioning your comment that I bolded.

[b]John 1:18 claims:
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself
God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

The first God mentioned is written in Greek as:

Θεὸν

is not the same Greek word for the second God mentioned.
The second God mentioned is written as:

Θεὸς

Is the above scripture wrong because people have seen Jesus. But you claim Jesus is God which appears to
be a major contradiction of the above cited scripture. Definitely the two words were 'mistranslated' as God
because they are 2 separate words.

I think Jesus can be thought of as God, but this is a Christian thing only. Others see it their own way and if they are in another tradition won't be able to see it the Christian way which is understandable. Jesus can also be thought of as a normal man like us in every way. The most high God is not restricted to one definition or understanding, but man has often tried to force God into one, i'm not trying to force Jesus to be God in that way

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

I think Jesus can be thought of as God, but this is a Christian thing only. Others see it their own way and if they are in another tradition won't be able to see it the Christian way which is understandable. Jesus can also be thought of as a normal man like us in every way. The most high God is not restricted to one definition or understanding, but man has often tried to force God into one, i'm not trying to force Jesus to be God in that way

Sure, Jesus can be considered as a god, but a lot of other entities can be considered as a God/god as far as the Bible is concerned. In the Old Testament, the various words and names that got translated as God/god or Lord, etc. has left people confused into thinking the word God/god always means the Almighty God which is not necessarily true.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Sure, Jesus can be considered as a god, but a lot of other entities can be considered as a God/god as far as the Bible is concerned. In the Old Testament, the various words and names that got translated as God/god or Lord, etc. has left people confused into thinking the word God/god always means the Almighty God which is not necessarily true.

i guess that is true. i just think there is one single God that exists that outwardly different religions disagree on but inwardly reach toward the same thing. they are different though in many ways. God does not seem to mind this
It is good to see a person find God there is something about them that's changed. But to fall out over the differences is not lead anywhere good but banter and rivalry is ok

[BigJohn]

What happens when a person finds God/god, makes changes and then finds out they were worshiping the wrong God/god almost like what happened in First and Second Kings?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

i guess that is true. i just think there is one single God that exists that outwardly different religions disagree on but inwardly reach toward the same thing. they are different though in many ways. God does not seem to mind this
It is good to see a person find God there is something about them that's changed. But to fall out over the differences is not lead anywhere good but banter and rivalry is ok

My observations are also that religions seem to disagree outwardly on many things but inwardly reach towards the same thing ultimately.