Thomas - truth from Christ - gnosis revealed

Originally Posted by sky123

You have misunderstood, it isn't about awareness and something to be aware of, it's separating the awareness from that which it percieves.

No, I understood what you were saying. I just went off on a tangent (or maybe a 180) about the possibility of even conceptualizing awareness as separate from that which is aware. A common lingo heard is to say that at our most basic level we are awareness, yet awareness is just a property of something. So we might say that that “something” must be what is primary, yet that puts us right back to the question of, “What is it that is aware of that ‘something’?” How to separate those two? IDK.

Your point/question/statement is similar but in the opposite direction. Can one separate awareness from that which it is aware of? Can awareness even exist if there is no subject to be aware of? Awareness again is actually just a property, it can’t be aware (verb) of anything. It is that which is aware (subject/noun) that has awareness of that which it is aware of (object). Which brings us back to the question of what is it, that is aware? Which when answered, will bring us back to the question of “Ok, then what is aware of that which is aware?”, and around and around we go. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Or perhaps, awareness comes into being through its own accord, manifesting itself through the image of that “something” which it is aware of. Or is awareness (or that which is aware) always there, lying in repose, and can only been known to have always been there when it becomes aware of itself in the movement of the things it is aware of, things it manifested of its own accord. We say a magnetic field is always there, but we cannot be aware of it unless we see it moving a piece of metal. Ask me to talk about the field itself, and I can only describe it in terms of its potential to move something else. Its existence in repose can only be inferred from the movements it itself manifests in things.

So can the knower and the known ever be truly known apart from one another?
I don’t know.

[Ab Origine]

Hi Folks..

Ketzer;

Awareness is often spoken of as if it is a thing itself. Yet my mind cannot conceive of such a thing, rather it always reverts back to some “thing” which is aware. Yet whatever this “thing” that is aware is, is itself a creation of the mind.

Yer, its REALLY hard to imagine and conceive of it - this is why it can only truly be understood by the direct EXPERIENCE of it - BECOME it He said.. Yes, it will always re create the next image of Self - and there will always be that division and layered mind it SEEMS - but with repeated exposure it will all start to slot into place - like riding a bike - you cannot TRY to do it - it just HAPPENS all by itself - one moment its struggle struggle struggle - then next its Oh my its WORKING !!

It would seem the mind thinks itself into being and then becomes aware of what it thought up, and says to itself, “this image that I imagine is what I must be”. It is sort of like the light that came into being of its own accord and established itself.

Again, you are not wrong.. But not quite correct either....Try to think of it more like the -"this Image that I imagine is what IAM NOT"

Like the Self is rummaging through a large chest, pulling out random objects - NO, not that - next - no not that - next - NO not that ....on and on.....Eventually the mind will realise - it IS NEITHER the chest nor the object it pulled out to inspect - but rather it is the ABSTARCT Self that CHOOSES to do this...

Yet the mind overlooks that there must have been something that preceded and created the image, yet cannot itself be imagined except through a surrogate “thing” of its own making, can only be made manifest through some other imagined thing, perhaps sometimes that thing is me.

Ah you are knocking loudly on the correct door now - let that concept stay in you surface mind all day long.. Actively contemplate it as you go about your chores...Then tonight before you sleep - sit, relax the body seek out the inner silence....It may take many attempts - many nights - but you are ready - you know the academic knowledge and are beginning to understand - now you just need to apply it to gain Gnosis...

Light is energy. Energy in movement, a disturbance propagating through a field, is the foundation of all things. Energy at rest, a quiescent field, is the potential of all things. Energy can transform from one form to another, it can be kinetic or potential, yet we can never know energy directly.

You my friend are going to LOVE the ORIGINAL gospel of John - Im going to do a thread about it, and it covers EXACTLY what you are saying above - HOW and WHY Creation occurs.. I would recommend, if you are not already familiar - do a search for SECRET gospel of John - you may find it very enlightening here..

Yet what is energy itself, can it ever be known separately from the forms of it that we are aware of? Where did it come from? Is it itself a thing, or just a concept we made up to explain the movement and repose of the myriad of manifest forms? Including the kinetic energy form we know as our mind?

The answers can only come, indeed, directly - Gnosis - it is this search for Gnosis - the living truth of Self - that literally CAUSES CREATION and forces it to unfold and evolve into its fullest potential, fullest realisation.. This drive for Self understanding is the very force that brings structure, form and DEFINITION to Creation itself - thus abstract awareness becomes the solid seeming awareness that can be directly EXPERIENCED and thereby directly KNOWN.. This whole process is Gnosis..

[sky]

Originally Posted by ketzer

No, I understood what you were saying. I just went off on a tangent (or maybe a 180) about the possibility of even conceptualizing awareness as separate from that which is aware. A common lingo heard is to say that at our most basic level we are awareness, yet awareness is just a property of something. So we might say that that “something” must be what is primary, yet that puts us right back to the question of, “What is it that is aware of that ‘something’?” How to separate those two? IDK.

Your point/question/statement is similar but in the opposite direction. Can one separate awareness from that which it is aware of? Can awareness even exist if there is no subject to be aware of? Awareness again is actually just a property, it can’t be aware (verb) of anything. It is that which is aware (subject/noun) that has awareness of that which it is aware of (object). Which brings us back to the question of what is it, that is aware? Which when answered, will bring us back to the question of “Ok, then what is aware of that which is aware?”, and around and around we go. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Or perhaps, awareness comes into being through its own accord, manifesting itself through the image of that “something” which it is aware of. Or is awareness (or that which is aware) always there, lying in repose, and can only been known to have always been there when it becomes aware of itself in the movement of the things it is aware of, things it manifested of its own accord. We say a magnetic field is always there, but we cannot be aware of it unless we see it moving a piece of metal. Ask me to talk about the field itself, and I can only describe it in terms of its potential to move something else. Its existence in repose can only be inferred from the movements it itself manifests in things.

So can the knower and the known ever be truly known apart from one another?
I don’t know.

Pure Awareness is the nature of it's own awareness. Pure, untouched that which originates from the very beginning, Christ Consciouness or Buddha nature.

I would say the knower and the known are one, they don't exist separately..... one needs the other

Originally Posted by sky123

Pure Awareness is the nature of it's own awareness. Pure, untouched that which originates from the very beginning, Christ Consciouness or Buddha nature.

I would say the knower and the known are one, they don't exist separately..... one needs the other

Perhaps, that is why I say that separating awareness from that which it is aware of, would be a neat trick, if I could do it.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Perhaps, that is why I say that separating awareness from that which it is aware of, would be a neat trick, if I could do it.

You can do it.... It's all about ' Self ' once you realize there is not a self your there, staying there is the hard part. We all have glimpses, little tasters

[AHIYAH]

I see the spiritual dodge ball is well underway, I am aware of what is not there if what is known is not in existence is the same as saying the Shultz line "I know nothing" and I separated myself(the knower) from that which is known(nothing) I am left with something. So one would ask well what is nothing? Well nothing is certainly a subject worth talking about making nothing a paradox and also something. So if I again separate myself from nothing which is something I also get something which is nothing in the same respect. Following me so far? According to some , nothing is the something people will venture through nothing to obtain the something only nothing could give them by separating the nothing and the something so as to unify them both and becoming one thing. So a new saying arises, you most certainly can get something from nothing if you are capable of becoming nothing in order to become something. It can be true the other way round. Which would be true and false at the same time no matter which way you look at it. Mud thickens? Look at it this way, in one hand I hold nothing and in my other hand I hold something and both weigh the exact same amount it's just that the nothing is weighed in increments of something and the something is weighed in increments of nothing. Yet they weigh the same. It's similar to the saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure" . So if I was to throw away my nothing(trash) and another man comes along and picks up my nothing(trash) and treasures it it turns my nothing(trash) into something(treasure) does it not? Did you know a Blessing is also nothing and something and has an equal called a Curse which is also nothing and something? Now if you were to separate yourself from the two what would you get? What ever answer you're thinking of I can also play a spiritual game of dodge ball where you're the ball.

Originally Posted by sky123

You can do it.... It's all about ' Self ' once you realize there is not a self your there, staying there is the hard part. We all have glimpses, little tasters

Once who realizes there is not a self?

Originally Posted by AHIYAH

I see the spiritual dodge ball is well underway, I am aware of what is not there if what is known is not in existence is the same as saying the Shultz line "I know nothing" and I separated myself(the knower) from that which is known(nothing) I am left with something. So one would ask well what is nothing? Well nothing is certainly a subject worth talking about making nothing a paradox and also something. So if I again separate myself from nothing which is something I also get something which is nothing in the same respect. Following me so far? According to some , nothing is the something people will venture through nothing to obtain the something only nothing could give them by separating the nothing and the something so as to unify them both and becoming one thing. So a new saying arises, you most certainly can get something from nothing if you are capable of becoming nothing in order to become something. It can be true the other way round. Which would be true and false at the same time no matter which way you look at it. Mud thickens? Look at it this way, in one hand I hold nothing and in my other hand I hold something and both weigh the exact same amount it's just that the nothing is weighed in increments of something and the something is weighed in increments of nothing. Yet they weigh the same. It's similar to the saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure" . So if I was to throw away my nothing(trash) and another man comes along and picks up my nothing(trash) and treasures it it turns my nothing(trash) into something(treasure) does it not? Did you know a Blessing is also nothing and something and has an equal called a Curse which is also nothing and something? Now if you were to separate yourself from the two what would you get? What ever answer you're thinking of I can also play a spiritual game of dodge ball where you're the ball.

Dodge ball is a pretty good way to put it. No matter which direction you are looking, there is always going to be a ball coming from behind to hit you in the back of the head. The mind has quite a hard time trying to accept that some things are just beyond its capacity to comprehend. Is this one of those things? First I must understand what it is and only then can I say whether or not I could have comprehended it or not. Well we can keep guessing at the password and eventually the door may open, or perhaps we may find there never was a password to know and we could always have just walked right through. It was only our belief that we needed knowledge of the password first that kept us from trying the knob. Oh well, keeps the mind in motion anyway.

[AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Dodge ball is a pretty good way to put it. No matter which direction you are looking, there is always going to be a ball coming from behind to hit you in the back of the head. The mind has quite a hard time trying to accept that some things are just beyond its capacity to comprehend. Is this one of those things? First I must understand what it is and only then can I say whether or not I could have comprehended it or not. Well we can keep guessing at the password and eventually the door may open, or perhaps we may find there never was a password to know and we could always have just walked right through. It was only our belief that we needed knowledge of the password first that kept us from trying the knob. Oh well, keeps the mind in motion anyway.

Yeah that post wasn't aimed at you, there's a particular door that is already opened and some people think they need a password and there are many passwords to this door that's already opened. It all depends on the spiritual gifts you naturally have. When that door is opened a particular voice is freed so that's how others will know that that door is opened. I hear this voice in other people even if they don't realise they have it. Which makes me wonder why you asked about a password unless it was for educational purposes for others to know. It wasn't too long ago I use to say that self determination is what turns the key to unlock the door to our freedom, I could now call that a password. The lock is confusion which is how we know that the door is still closed in other people. I already hear that Voice in your words you use. I'm of the people that if I see a person expressing his closed door antics I will sometimes bring confusion to counter their confusion and again this isn't aimed at you. The more that Voice is expressed through those that have their door open the better it is for other open doorsters to share and learn from each other. Ofc its just my opinion

[sky]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Once who realizes there is not a self?

Not self, not ' not a self '
Ego is the self.. It creates a sense of self but when you delve into this self that ego creates you will see nothing exist independently therefore there is not self.