Being right on the 8 fold path

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Yes. That is a beautiful key you opened up in all this.

True humility of the heart cannot be achieved through the minds view of itself.

I just wondered what is a mind's view of itself because it seems to me I am aware of the mind movements without any relative attachments to these, and I see the mind from beyond the mind. I can remember in the teaching that Gotama, on his mission to end suffering, realised he can't end it until if finds out its cause, and he found that suffering is the psychological reaction called craving. This gets a bit complex with the relationship between sensation and craving in the discourse on dependent arisings, but this is a simple version. In this sense, awareness of ones own mind/sensation is the way understanding suffering and its cause, but yes, as ajasatysa said, it is to do with that non-resisting willingness and humility of heart.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

The chakras stuff isn't quite fits for Buddhism, that's Hinduism. Although the names maybe the same as Buddhism teaching, naturesflow. About all the eight right actions against Dukkha. And the rising of wisdom.....is the Buddhism teaching. The nirvana is the end of Samara.

Yes your right Jeremy they don't fit Buddhism. I was using my own awareness of chakras to associate as most beliefs about the self and its seperation will and can show...on an energy level of awareness Chakras can immerse deeper into Buddhist teachings, it's just that some do not notice this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge to point that out to me all the same.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Yes your right Jeremy they don't fit Buddhism. I was using my own awareness of chakras to associate as most beliefs about the self and its seperation will and can show...on an energy level of awareness Chakras can immerse deeper into Buddhist teachings, it's just that some do not notice this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge to point that out to me all the same.

That seems to be useful but the actual high dharma performance don't use much of the inner energy of the sort. That's why the Gods in the spiritual realm never understand proper use of the dharma. That's why they're becoming energy hunters, but that is a cheating who spread this energy stuffs. That's their agendas behind that aim for....

Let see, Buddha Sakyamuni he never learn this chakras stuffs. I don't think about this chakras stuffs then am l lower than anyone of them? This can prove that they're not telling the truth. They're not teaching what's benefit to human. Their agendas is more important for them. And it isn't good in one way or another. That's you're always attached to their gods of religion.

I've one of the founder Goddess about this chakras practice in my place and she can prove to me or others that it isn't very "useful". But more harmful.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

I just wondered what is a mind's view of itself because it seems to me I am aware of the mind movements without any relative attachments to these, and I see the mind from beyond the mind. I can remember in the teaching that Gotama, on his mission to end suffering, realised he can't end it until if finds out its cause, and he found that suffering is the psychological reaction called craving. This gets a bit complex with the relationship between sensation and craving in the discourse on dependent arisings, but this is a simple version. In this sense, awareness of ones own mind/sensation is the way understanding suffering and its cause, but yes, as ajasatysa said, it is to do with that non-resisting willingness and humility of heart.

That's a great question to ask. At the time of typing I simply let it fall out of me and in reflection I am looking at it myself a little deeper to notice what part of me allowed this to be spoken aware but unaware of why it came..

I guess in my answer above there is the answer. There is both the awareness of self in the mind's knowing, where it looks through its conscious and unconscious view of itself ( but only working from the minds view of itself) The awareness of self beyond mind is the witness to the all this, meaning one 'is open" observing and allowing all that as it arises to get clear as a more integrated working whole body awareness. The first view will have people going around and around in circles with themselves and others trapped in the minds view of themselves, where as someone going deeper and ending those binds you will notice the change more rapidly occurring through a more complete shifting process.

You know how when you look into this Buddhist forum and the same things are playing out over and over. Its like a broken record on repeat..This is truly a great indicator of those who haven't dropped deep into their being to end their own suffering more complete which is the "fullness of sensation and reaction" ceasing. In the insistence that knowing and witnessing alone will do that for them, I can be aware from my own being, that it wont sustain itself in this way alone..The same record is being played over and over. They are governed by the minds view of itself, trapped and unaware there is more of self to merge into their own union of they let that go and went deeper beyond mind but deeper into the whole body to open up all pathways interconnected, that can be released and balanced as one.

I only mentioned this because its obvious through the cycles here why people continue to lock into the mind and not go deeper into their "being" and really sit with what comes out of their own mouths and realize more for themselves. In this way your not just speaking the awareness or knowledge without going deeper as yourself in all that, one would consider themselves in everything that comes from their so called "right speech", well all those "right views" we see coming out of the Buddhism mouths and mind..



And you can see those that keep going around and around in circles in this way.. It is a trap of itself, playing games with itself that it either cant see its playing and if it can see itself playing and not moving beyond its own "seeing itself playing" or "not seeing itself playing" speaks volumes to me that they are containing themselves, trying to contain others in that way.

Unless your speaking realized in the awareness deeper it will not move beyond what it continues to show of itself same ole same ole..Which really gets repetitiously boring in a thread that could well provide much more excitement of learning than, that kind of behaviour..:)

I get the feeling that some because they know, actually forget that learning and modelling can be much more conscious of itself as that model before it starts reacting to show itself off. Maybe they just like showing off? Perhaps they do...perhaps they don't. :)
At the feel level a humble heart is felt. If you hide your own heart, I guess you hide some vital aspects of yourself, that can never be substituted by a minds eye view that it chooses to send out of itself..

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

That seems to be useful but the actual high dharma performance don't use much of the inner energy of the sort. That's why the Gods in the spiritual realm never understand proper use of the dharma. That's why they're becoming energy hunters, but that is a cheating who spread this energy stuffs. That's their agendas behind that aim for....

Let see, Buddha Sakyamuni he never learn this chakras stuffs. I don't think about this chakras stuffs then am l lower than anyone of them? This can prove that they're not telling the truth. They're not teaching what's benefit to human. Their agendas is more important for them. And it isn't good in one way or another. That's you're always attached to their gods of religion.

I've one of the founder Goddess about this chakras practice in my place and she can prove to me or others that it isn't very "useful". But more harmful.

I don't worry about chakra stuff now Jeremy, I mentioned it through a realm of awareness that came through that sharing only. My own embodiment now knows more..But I am very conscious that for some its still an important part of their own opening deeper awareness. But thankyou for further showing of what you feel in all this.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

That's a great question to ask. At the time of typing I simply let it fall out of me and in reflection I am looking at it myself a little deeper to notice what part of me allowed this to be spoken aware but unaware of why it came..

I guess in my answer above there is the answer. There is both the awareness of self in the mind's knowing, where it looks through its conscious and unconscious view of itself ( but only working from the minds view of itself) The awareness of self beyond mind is the witness to the all this, meaning one 'is open" observing and allowing all that as it arises to get clear as a more integrated working whole body awareness. The first view will have people going around and around in circles with themselves and others trapped in the minds view of themselves, where as someone going deeper and ending those binds you will notice the change more rapidly occurring.

Oh right thanks for clarifying. At times I see it all at once for whole mechanism it is, but that has no details, so I come to look at bit by bit as it arises in a clearing process, and I can see how people start to give particular importance to this bit or that bit as it comes into conscious awareness. It usually has a sort of short term relief of some kind, but it ends up coming up again later on, and I guess after a while it loses its importance and clears away, but it is very slow, and the same habit of making important is being reinforced - So, one can go below the results and see that habit of giving importance coming up, and also notice the egocentric element it supports.

You know how when you look into this Buddhist forum and the same things are playing out over and over.

Yes - there are patterned repititions that appear in the trends, and they might stem from sensation more subtle than current mind is able to perceive, but it helps to be aware to the degree that one can, and as that level gets quiet, one peers a little deeper. It's the primary reason I want an undisturbed space in this section which we all care for, so we might realise something deeper than previously - and the mind can't become subtle when it's reactive and distracted. To me it appears that people who incite reactivity do not understand the implications of creating noises that disturb the equanimity of other folk, but at least we can understand that the volition behind so doing is worth noticing and being aware of.

This is truly a great indicator of those who haven't dropped deep into their being to end their own suffering more complete which is the "fullness of sensation and reaction" ceasing. In the insistence that knowing and witnessing alone will do that for them, I can be aware from my own being, that it wont sustain itself in this way alone..The same record is being played over and over. They are governed by the minds view of itself, trapped and unaware there is more of self to merge into their own union of they let that go and went deeper beyond mind but deeper into the whole body to open up all pathways interconnected, that can be released and balanced as one.

Oh yes, swept off in the reactive mind, within the dream of arisings being propelled by motions of craving, agitation, aversion to the arisings - but when one is aware of this occurring, they then see it from beyond in conscious awareness, and realise, ah so this is what I have been doing.

I only mentioned this because its obvious through the cycles here why people continue to lock into the mind and not go deeper into their "being" and really sit with what comes out of their own mouths and realize more for themselves. In this way your not just speaking the awareness or knowledge without going deeper as yourself in all that, one would consider themselves in everything that comes from their so called "right speech", well all those "right views" we see coming out of the Buddhism mouths and mind..

I think I go the core of this 'right' business by saying that this feeling arises, this is the volition arising toward said feeling, and my speech action, and so forth, follows the nature of my volition, so we hear it in the ear sense, and that immediately arises as feeling, and that's where the reaction, volition, occurs. What nature of volition we have toward our own sensation will determine what is 'right' or 'wrong' in the Buddhist use of the words.

And you can see those that keep going around and around in circles in this way.. It is a trap of itself, playing games with itself that it either cant see its playing and if it can see itself playing and not moving beyond its own "seeing itself playing" or "not seeing itself playing" speaks volumes to me that they are containing themselves, trying to contain others in that way.

Unless your speaking realized in the awareness deeper it will not move beyond what it continues to show of itself same ole same ole..Which really gets repetitiously boring in a thread that could well provide much more excitement of learning than, that kind of behaviour..:)

I get the feeling that some because they know, actually forget that learning and modelling can be much more conscious of itself as that model before it starts reacting to show itself off. Maybe they just like showing off? Perhaps they do...perhaps they don't. :)

In the Buddhist practice, there is awareness of what it is. 'Know' is used differently than in English. For example in the anapanasati or the satipathhana - the two suttas key to meditations - it is expressed, 'I know I am breathing long. I know I am breathing short'. This implies there is direct awareness of what is happening - a 'knowing awareness of this experience'. In the discourse on knowledge there is a story of a ship servant and a scholarly passenger. The scholar knows everything about the oceans, water, weather, how things float and so on. The servant rushes in and says, 'the boat is sinking and we have to swim away.' The scholar had learned all about swimming, knows so much more than the servant ever did, but he couldn't actually swim - which was unfortunate for him - but the servant lived to tell the tale.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yep, I knew there had to be others out there somewhere hehehe.

Yes, feelings definitely come before thoughts, we must be using our reptilian brain

[Ground]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes, feelings definitely come before thoughts, we must be using our reptilian brain

41. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands feeling, the origin of feeling, the cessation of feeling, and the way leading to the cessation of feeling, in that way he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

42. "And what is feeling, what is the origin of feeling, what is the cessation of feeling, what is the way leading to the cessation of feeling? There are these six classes of feeling: feeling born of eye-contact, feeling born of ear-contact, feeling born of nose-contact, feeling born of tongue-contact, feeling born of body-contact, feeling born of mind-contact. With the arising of contact there is the arising of feeling. With the cessation of contact there is the cessation of feeling. The way leading to the cessation of feeling is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.

43. "When a noble disciple has thus understood feeling, the origin of feeling, the cessation of feeling, and the way leading to the cessation of feeling... he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...bb.html#vedana



Since there is also 'feeling born of mind-contact' thoughts may be the cause of feelings as well. Therefore thought may precede feelings which is manifested in so called 'mind trainings' that is practiced in some buddhist traditions, simillar to 'positive thinking'.

Anyway the cessation of feelings is the aim of the buddhist path.

the Blessed One has said: "Whatever is felt comes under stress."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...an.html#dukkha

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I just wondered what is a mind's view of itself because it seems to me I am aware of the mind movements without any relative attachments to these, and I see the mind from beyond the mind. I can remember in the teaching that Gotama, on his mission to end suffering, realised he can't end it until if finds out its cause, and he found that suffering is the psychological reaction called craving. This gets a bit complex with the relationship between sensation and craving in the discourse on dependent arisings, but this is a simple version. In this sense, awareness of ones own mind/sensation is the way understanding suffering and its cause, but yes, as ajasatysa said, it is to do with that non-resisting willingness and humility of heart.

I see mind from mind not from beyond mind and I find that to be a wonderful way to see.
In other words it's all mind.
I'm not saying what mind is but seeing mind from mind takes the other out of it and it explains being self aware.
I'm just sharing cuz that one realization has proven to be life changing for me. The difference is subtle but it's huge in practice for me.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Ground

41. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands feeling, the origin of feeling, the cessation of feeling, and the way leading to the cessation of feeling, in that way he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

42. "And what is feeling, what is the origin of feeling, what is the cessation of feeling, what is the way leading to the cessation of feeling? There are these six classes of feeling: feeling born of eye-contact, feeling born of ear-contact, feeling born of nose-contact, feeling born of tongue-contact, feeling born of body-contact, feeling born of mind-contact. With the arising of contact there is the arising of feeling. With the cessation of contact there is the cessation of feeling. The way leading to the cessation of feeling is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.

43. "When a noble disciple has thus understood feeling, the origin of feeling, the cessation of feeling, and the way leading to the cessation of feeling... he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...bb.html#vedana




Since there is also 'feeling born of mind-contact' thoughts may be the cause of feelings as well. Therefore thought may precede feelings which is manifested in so called 'mind trainings' that is practiced in some buddhist traditions, simillar to 'positive thinking'.

Anyway the cessation of feelings is the aim of the buddhist path.

Deeper understanding shows that feeling is relative to the contact consciousness associated with it and this understanding shows that feeling, everything happens within mind. To see this is not to end feeling, it ends unconsciously identifying with a you that is feeling.
Mind watches feelings as it watches thoughts. It doesn't crave to end them. Aiming at ending feeling or suffering is a wrong approach and not what is taught. Understanding is and the rest falls into place