What do you feel makes someone a Christian?

I agree with what Zem said, i.e. a Christian is one who obeys Jesus.

I also liked the point that a disciple IS a Christian.

Jesus said, ''whosoever of you that does not forsake all that he owns, cannot be my disciple''. So, according to Jesus a Christian or disciple, is one who forsakes all that he owns. He also said this about forsaking our family, and forsaking our lives.

[Morpheus]

My grandmother was taught Christianity by her mother, who grew up before the fundamentalist movement started around 1910. Before that movement, a Christian was known by their attitude and actions. So when I learned the modern fundamentalist version that says it's all about believing the right thing, and tried to tell it to my grandmother, she wasn't impressed. I tried to tell her that other religions are wrong, and that you must be born again because hell is very real. Her response was that a Christian isn't supposed to judge others like that. She didn't see that I was a Christian at all.

Excellent story SeaWolf. Thanks.

I agree with what Zem said, i.e. a Christian is one who obeys Jesus.

I also liked the point that a disciple IS a Christian.

Jesus said, ''whosoever of you that does not forsake all that he owns, cannot be my disciple''. So, according to Jesus a Christian or disciple, is one who forsakes all that he owns. He also said this about forsaking our family, and forsaking our lives.

Well, ceilo however....when Roman soldiers believed upon Him, and asked Him, "What should we do?"
Did he tell them to quit the military,and forsake everything, and follow Him?
Or...?
I don't know that Christian is necessarily a disciple. This kind of thinking tends to put the emphasis and requirement on the individual, and not where it belongs, on Christ. Christ fulfilled the requirement for peace with God and Heaven.
We are hardly able to.

A disciple is a function, however, we are told that all who believe are saved.
Saved means rescued.
And, we are told that this kind of faith comes from above, inspired by the Father, and, as predestined apart from time.
Also, what did Jesus say is His commandment?
To believe on the One whom God sent

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Excellent story SeaWolf. Thanks.



Well, ceilo however....when Roman soldiers believed upon Him, and asked Him, "What should we do?"
Did he tell them to quit the military,and forsake everything, and follow Him?
Or...?

This scripture is interesting in that they were told exactly what to DO. And furthermore, it is just as interesting that the office of soldier was not called into repentance. I think the below Scripture says much to the followers of Jesus, Christians, for what it may be to those who are humbled upon the earth that are great in Heaven, and for those who're great in this world who'll be made humble in the world to come...

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

I wouldn't say that being a Christian is a disciple either Morpheus. Christian covers a wide range of people including the cultural association to Christianity. I sat in church this Easter and wondered how many cultural Christians actually know something about Christianity, the following of Jesus' teaching rather than showing up for a holiday out of respect.

Lastly while sitting there amongst the congregation I had an epiphany <-- I've been dying to use that word today. Given the past abuses of the Church, it is a wonder that a natural check and balance system has been put into place, in one way the church is far too disorganized from the various denominations, not many can agree on anything that would result in a united power. On the other hand, like the coral reefs that grow in the ocean, where cloning is concerned, where disease can be widespread due to lack of various immunity, the church is much more able to defend itself against the various outbreaks of society...... off topic but nonetheless it came to mind.

Morpheus wrote:

Well, ceilo however....when Roman soldiers believed upon Him, and asked Him, "What should we do?"
Did he tell them to quit the military,and forsake everything, and follow Him?

Perhaps my memory is incorrect, but I thought the roman soldiers asking ''what shall we do'', were soldiers speaking to John the Baptist? If I am wrong, please post the relevant verse. Thanks.

I don't know that Christian is necessarily a disciple. This kind of thinking tends to put the emphasis and requirement on the individual, and not where it belongs, on Christ.

It says in Acts 11:26 that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. That seems reasonable to me.

Your sentence is funny, because I see it completely the other way. By calling yourself a Christian, you are saying you are a follower/disciple (someone who learns) of CHRIST. You see the focus is on Jesus. But the way you have explained your thought, one can call themselves Christian without having to be a follower/disciple (some who learns from) Jesus Christ. Focus and attention is now OFF Christ, and onto ourselves and how we can make up the rules. Can you see that?

Christ fulfilled the requirement for peace with God and Heaven.
We are hardly able to.

Sure Jesus did this, but am I saying we need to? No. What I said was, Jesus said, ''whosoever of you that does not forsake all that they own cannot be my disciple''. He's saying you can't follow me if you don't do this. This has nothing to do with making peace with God and heaven, or in some way trying to take the place of Jesus, but it has everything to do with obeying and following him, things Jesus made pretty clear he wanted us to do.

A disciple is a function, however, we are told that all who believe are saved.

There are numerous verses that you could be quoting from, so perhaps you can share the one you are referring to? But, even while you are doing that, what do you think it means to 'believe'? Jesus said a LOT that equates believing with obeying, even James says that the devils have that kind of faith, but they don't OBEY. So when Jesus clearly says for us to do something (and we see evidence of his disciples doing just that, as referenced by TeeHee), and we see new disciples doing so in the book of Acts, and re don't obey Jesus, then we have to ask ourselves, do we really believe him?

Also, what did Jesus say is His commandment?
To believe on the One whom God sent

Again, what does it mean to believe on the one whom he sent? I see from Jesus' teachings it means to OBEY him. Perhaps you can share (from the teachings of Jesus), where he says we don't have to do what he said in order to be saved. Thanks.

[Morpheus]

Morpheus wrote:
Quote:
Well, ceilo however....when Roman soldiers believed upon Him, and asked Him, "What should we do?"
Did he tell them to quit the military,and forsake everything, and follow Him?

Certainly you can do a quick search as well as I. But, I found this:

"10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. 14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages."

http://kingjbible.com/luke/3.htm

Yes, you are right cielo, it is John, not Jesus Himself.
Also, I thought of the verses about Christ saying to "go an make disciples of all nations".
But I note that the King James versions say, go and, "teach". There is this note though, from Barnes:

"Teach all nations - The word rendered "teach," here, is not the one that is usually so translated in the New Testament.
This word properly means "to disciple, or to make disciples of." This was to be done, however, by teaching, and by administering baptism."
http://bible.cc/matthew/28-19.htm

So, seems your citing has validity.
My point was, though, not everyone can leave their families to do mission work. Or, do you think otherwise? So, it is the interpretation of "Disciple" which is in question. Let's look:

"Definition of DISCIPLE

1
one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a : one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts b : a convinced adherent of a school or individual."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disciple

[Morpheus]

This scripture is interesting in that they were told exactly what to DO. And furthermore, it is just as interesting that the office of soldier was not called into repentance. I think the below Scripture says much to the followers of Jesus, Christians, for what it may be to those who are humbled upon the earth that are great in Heaven, and for those who're great in this world who'll be made humble in the world to come...

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

I wouldn't say that being a Christian is a disciple either Morpheus. Christian covers a wide range of people including the cultural association to Christianity. I sat in church this Easter and wondered how many cultural Christians actually know something about Christianity, the following of Jesus' teaching rather than showing up for a holiday out of respect.

Lastly while sitting there amongst the congregation I had an epiphany <-- I've been dying to use that word today. Given the past abuses of the Church, it is a wonder that a natural check and balance system has been put into place, in one way the church is far too disorganized from the various denominations, not many can agree on anything that would result in a united power. On the other hand, like the coral reefs that grow in the ocean, where cloning is concerned, where disease can be widespread due to lack of various immunity, the church is much more able to defend itself against the various outbreaks of society...... off topic but nonetheless it came to mind.

Excellent post, TeeHee.

Thankyou.

This is a great topic because alot of Christians do not study the bible.
So they guess at what makes a Christian; I am a Witch but I have studied Christianity and what makes a Christian; It is not just belief in Yeshua/Jesus/Christ but the belief in the Sacrafice that was made. In other words if you do not believe Jesus died for your sins you have a one way ticket to hell.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

So, seems your citing has validity.
My point was, though, not everyone can leave their families to do mission work. Or, do you think otherwise? So, it is the interpretation of "Disciple" which is in question. Let's look:

"Definition of DISCIPLE

''one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a : one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts b : a convinced adherent of a school or individual."

With regards to the definition, a disciple is a convinced adherent to an individual, sounds pretty reasonable. ''Jesus says, follow me, obey me, learn of me''.

The definition that a disciple may just be one of the 12 is a popular doctrine, because it then becomes easy to excuse having to obey the things he said. However, aside from the many verses that show this thought to not be true, Jesus says (and this is even with regards to that verse you mentioned from Matthew 28), that his disciples (the 12), should go into all the world teaching people to ''obey all things I have commanded you''.

So, we see ample proof of Jesus saying 'follow me', and teaching for us to forsake our lives, family, lands, and jobs, to do so. They even ask what they will receive for doing so. We see his disciples following this in Acts too (chapters 2 and 4). So when Jesus said these things, was it just for them? When he said, ''whomsoever of you that does not forsake all he owns cannot be my disciple'', was it just for the 12? No.

We see them obeying it, and Jesus commanding them to teach others to obey it to.

One last thought, which I find interesting...is that most people have no problem with accepting the verse ''whomsoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life'', from John 3:15. But that same whomsoever is there in Luke 14:33. What is it about that verse that make us question whether we really need to obey it, to be his disciple of a Christian? What makes us argue that we can believe in Christ, yet ignore what he says, or in some other way look for a loop hole to excuse ourselves from doing what he said? After all, if we can do it with that verse, then why not with the verse from John? Perhaps we don't really need to believe Jesus to get eternal life? Perhaps believing in Jesus simply means believing he was real (regardless of whether we actually believe HIM, his words, his spirit).

Originally Posted by ciel_perdu

With regards to the definition, a disciple is a convinced adherent to an individual, sounds pretty reasonable. ''Jesus says, follow me, obey me, learn of me''.

The definition that a disciple may just be one of the 12 is a popular doctrine, because it then becomes easy to excuse having to obey the things he said. However, aside from the many verses that show this thought to not be true, Jesus says (and this is even with regards to that verse you mentioned from Matthew 28), that his disciples (the 12), should go into all the world teaching people to ''obey all things I have commanded you''.

So, we see ample proof of Jesus saying 'follow me', and teaching for us to forsake our lives, family, lands, and jobs, to do so. They even ask what they will receive for doing so. We see his disciples following this in Acts too (chapters 2 and 4). So when Jesus said these things, was it just for them? When he said, ''whomsoever of you that does not forsake all he owns cannot be my disciple'', was it just for the 12? No.

We see them obeying it, and Jesus commanding them to teach others to obey it to.

One last thought, which I find interesting...is that most people have no problem with accepting the verse ''whomsoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life'', from John 3:15. But that same whomsoever is there in Luke 14:33. What is it about that verse that make us question whether we really need to obey it, to be his disciple of a Christian? What makes us argue that we can believe in Christ, yet ignore what he says, or in some other way look for a loop hole to excuse ourselves from doing what he said? After all, if we can do it with that verse, then why not with the verse from John? Perhaps we don't really need to believe Jesus to get eternal life? Perhaps believing in Jesus simply means believing he was real (regardless of whether we actually believe HIM, his words, his spirit).

The great whosoever that believes, forsakes...... ever notice the whosoevers throughout Scripture?

I think the Disciples were actually given a commission, so perhaps we should not be mistaking the Disciple's commission with being a learner of Jesus or Discipleship, as the commission was made to go out and not make people obey but to "win" them over to Jesus. I agree with Ceil, although the law states that we are to honor our father and mother, (credit to Morpheus for this loophole) we must be ready to respond to Jesus' calling. Once we are called out, the tell all will occur. Will we put earthly relationships and riches above the calling from God or will we forsake all in servitude.

I really can relate to the Apostle Paul, when stating that he is a slave to Jesus Christ. One thing a slave cannot do is make excuses or rationalize reasons for disobeying, a slave is commanded by the Lord. But these are differences between a disciple and a slave of God, a honorable title throughout the Bible. Regardless of how we may feel, this is an extreme that none of us hope to experience.

To forsake my wife for God, I'd have to put this into perspective. God is the ultimate relationship in this life and the life to come. The whole marriage covenant is a doorway to bring upon God His due glory. If my wife would not consider me leaving for the calling of God, then she is not putting God first and our whole marriage would be in question. Just some thoughts.....

I live because of Jesus. I love Jesus, and know that He is not other than the Father of All. Without Jesus, there would be no universe. For He was there as it began. Without Jesus, we would not have any life, for He is the Source of All life.

To know Him consciously, and to develop an intimate awareness of Him that is what matters above anything. When your life is not your own, but it is the spirit of Christ living in you. Then you are truly a Christian.