For those who say God does not exist here is your chance!

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

there are no "facts" concerning the existence of a god or gods. regardless of which holy book one uses as reference one is STILL referencing the opinion and theories of others, albeit long dead ancient others. "God" is a subjective personal experience so there aren't any objective "facts".

It's as I said in my first post on this thread; there is quite a bit of scientific data that points to an intelligent designer of life and the universe. Many scientists who are atheists are even calling for a new theory on the how life began, because evolution is not standing up under laboratory findings.

Science will not take center stage and announce that there is a God; but they have said that it would be impossible for the simplest cell and its DNA strand to simply evolve from the chaos of a big bang. As they look deeper into the makings of cells and DNA alone they are coming to the conclusion that it had to be made in a very specific manner and could no way have come about by pure accident. And this is only the very tiniest tip of the iceberg of what science has discovered that baffles their minds.

I could go on and on but to you it will be all made up and impossible because there are no "facts," that prove or point to a Divine Creator... and this will be your undying truth and opinion no matter how much material to prove otherwise is set before.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

It's as I said in my first post on this thread; there is quite a bit of scientific data that points to an intelligent designer of life and the universe. Many scientists who are atheists are even calling for a new theory on the how life began, because evolution is not standing up under laboratory findings.

The study of the evolution of life on this planet is not about religious beliefs. Natural science doesn't study religious beliefs, it studies nature.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

It's as I said in my first post on this thread; there is quite a bit of scientific data that points to an intelligent designer of life and the universe. Many scientists who are atheists are even calling for a new theory on the how life began, because evolution is not standing up under laboratory findings.

Science will not take center stage and announce that there is a God; but they have said that it would be impossible for the simplest cell and its DNA strand to simply evolve from the chaos of a big bang. As they look deeper into the makings of cells and DNA alone they are coming to the conclusion that it had to be made in a very specific manner and could no way have come about by pure accident. And this is only the very tiniest tip of the iceberg of what science has discovered that baffles their minds.

I could go on and on but to you it will be all made up and impossible because there are no "facts," that prove or point to a Divine Creator... and this will be your undying truth and opinion no matter how much material to prove otherwise is set before.

the Big Bang has nothing to do with biological evolution on this planet other than providing the basic materials for the physical existence of everything. and new theories concerning the origins of space/time are being considered all the time. the string theory and quantum mechanics are near metaphysical in their content. unlike religious dogma science isn't static. scientific theories change with incoming data.

and even if there is some invisible super being that created life on this and other planets there's no reason to believe that the Bible god (or any other human contrived deity) is an accurate view of said invisible super being.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

The study of the evolution of life on this planet is not about religious beliefs. Natural science doesn't study religious beliefs, it studies nature.

LOL... I'm sorry, but this old standby comeback is so void of logic that it almost floors me when I hear someone throw it out there. What book or person made this phrase so popular? Did the person in question even understand science as he/she set out to define it for others?

Of course science studies nature, but some of the conclusions drawn from that study go far beyond happy accidents and chance evolution. Perhaps you should go back and read my words again about cells and DNA before you pick and choose tidbits to respond to with pat, blanket answers that are full of holes.

Originally Posted by lightworkerAu

For those that like to drop into threads proclaiming the non existence of the Christian God of the bible.

Here is your chance..Prove it!

The rules..

You cannot use opinion, theories or assumptions!


You may Define God as the Bible does and only as the Bible does because this is the Christian section. But you must define God and rule out his existence with evidence.


You cannot claim it is up to theists to prove Jehova God exists!

Go for it take my challenge or forever never claim it as a fact!

Here's a perspective for you that uses neither theory nor verse. What it IS though, is logical-

The Bible expects to be followed unchanging over time. But life is about change. It defies logic to maintain a static perspective to maintain tradition.

[Seawolf]

I'm sorry that I didn't express it very well. It sounded like you were looking to the study of evolution for answers to religious/philosophical questions, but unfortunately it won't give you much information about religion. Science doesn't usually get involved in religion or spirituality. I think it should, but as of right now it has very little involvement with it, so there's not much you can learn about religion from it. Sometimes science discovers things that religions have believed for a long time though, such as in the science of the mind which is interesting.

I'm curious why it actually even matters. I look forward to the day that we stop focusing on who's beliefs are right verses wrong etc because it always seems to segregate us and put Human Beings in a position of opposition. While I'm aware the OP probably wasn't asking who's right or wrong, the underlying issue is still subtly there in these discussions. No wonder we're still going to war. Yeesh.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

the Big Bang has nothing to do with biological evolution on this planet other than providing the basic materials for the physical existence of everything.

and even if there is some invisible super being that created life on this and other planets there's no reason to believe that the Bible god (or any other human contrived deity) is an accurate view of said invisible super being.

Let me give you a crash lesson in biological evolution... The problem with current theories, is that in order for evolution to work, life would have to evolve inch by million year inch up the great mountain of evolution - and these are the scientists words, not mine. So in order for life to evolve into all of its many and complex forms, that evolutionary process would have had to begun billions and billions of years before the universe even existed... And naturally we know that is impossible.

The evidence seems to actually support that life sprang up on earth as soon the planet was able to support life...And the complexity of that life is staggering. Scientists are actually saying that we have a better chance of throwing a deck of cards into a hurricane, and out of that chaos getting a perfectly built card house, than we do of having such complex life just evolve out of random elements. If those random elements came together by chance to form just the building blocks of life, those elements would decay before another million years passed to reach the next step of evolution. It is just as big of an impossibility as the cards in the hurricane, and even more so. And this again, is only the tip of the iceberg as to why, by studying nature, science is beginning to say that life looks as if it were designed...a design needs a designer.

And, what is all the fuss about the Biblical God? All he asks of people is to believe in him and live a good and decent life...That's what it all boils down to. I didn't know that was such a tall order these days.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by CatChild

I'm curious why it actually even matters. I look forward to the day that we stop focusing on who's beliefs are right verses wrong etc because it always seems to segregate us and put Human Beings in a position of opposition. While I'm aware the OP probably wasn't asking who's right or wrong, the underlying issue is still subtly there in these discussions. No wonder we're still going to war. Yeesh.

The only time I think it matters who's right is in a situation where you need something that works. If you're dying of a disease and the doctors can't help you, it would be good to know if there's a religion/spirituality out there that can help where traditional medicine has failed.

Unfortunately, from what I see religious healing is sporadic and unreliable with major health issues, so to me I don't see that it matters. The effectiveness of religions seem to be equal and nothing sticks out as being better than the other.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

Let me give you a crash lesson in biological evolution... The problem with current theories, is that in order for evolution to work, life would have to evolve inch by million year inch up the great mountain of evolution - and these are the scientists words, not mine. So in order for life to evolve into all of its many and complex forms, that evolutionary process would have had to begun billions and billions of years before the universe even existed... And naturally we know that is impossible.

The evidence seems to actually support that life sprang up on earth as soon the planet was able to support life...And the complexity of that life is staggering. Scientists are actually saying that we have a better chance of throwing a deck of cards into a hurricane, and out of that chaos getting a perfectly built card house, than we do of having such complex life just evolve out of random elements. If those random elements came together by chance to form just the building blocks of life, those elements would decay before another million years passed to reach the next step of evolution. It is just as big of an impossibility as the cards in the hurricane, and even more so. And this again, is only the tip of the iceberg as to why, by studying nature, science is beginning to say that life looks as if it were designed...a design needs a designer.

And, what is all the fuss about the Biblical God? All he asks of people is to believe in him and live a good and decent life...That's what it all boils down to. I didn't know that was such a tall order these days.

lol okay. i guess the fossil records were planted in the deeper layers of the earth by the devil so to confuse and deceive we poor little humans. and all the useless residual organs and appendages that many creatures have (we have our useless and sometimes dangerous appendix, snakes have residual hip bones and whales have residual nails on their flippers) are put there by the Bible god ... for whatever mysterious purposes. and i guess the cormorant isn't really evolving into a flightless penguin-like water bird. it's just losing it's ability to fly because the Bible god works in mysterious ways.

whats the problem with the Bible god? i have a lot of problems with the nasty disposition of the Bible god. he's far too human in his primitive need to wrath and take revenge. and what kind of supreme being requires blood sacrifice in order to forgive his creations for being as he created them? human blood sacrifice at that. yuck!

and according to the Bible one can not have faith unless the Bible god gifts one with it so when he demands belief in him while not providing the "gift of faith" he's being cruelly disingenuous.

oh but hey! if the Bible god concept appeals to you that's fine. go with it. i imagine what one tolerates and glorifies in one's deity may be a reflection of one's socially constructed character. to each their own.