Praying With The Heart

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

In Catholicism,

Jesus took on evil in his humanity (sin, suffering, death),
And removed it by his divinity,
Like the scapegoat related to Yom Kippur,
(see Leviticus 16; 23: 26-32; 25: 9; Numbers 29: 7-11).
By uniting to his humanity, we also have evil removed by his divinity (e.g. receiving the Eucharist at Mass).


Good things (including ourselves) are not goodness itself (God),
But we place good things at the service of goodness.

"By uniting in his humanity, we also have evil removed by his divinity (e.g. receiving the Eucharist at Mass)."

Hmmmm...I don't think so....this is kind of ritual is not unique to Christianity:

"I guess you know about the Christian Eucharist, right?—the Lord's Supper. It commemorates the supper Jesus had with his disciples the night before the Romans nabbed Him and dragged him off, eventually to be crucified. Right? Christians still reenact that meal with Jesus, the meal with the God Jesus. You know this. Some Christians believe the meal is the body and blood of Jesus.

What you maybe didn't know is that Mithras' faithful celebrated a sacred meal with their God. So did followers of Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and other Pagan Gods of the Mystery Religions. New members of the Mysteries of Isis and Osiris completed their initiation with a sacramental meal."

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Lex

Hmmmm...I don't think so....this is kind of ritual is not unique to Christianity:

What you maybe didn't know is that Mithras' faithful celebrated a sacred meal with their God. So did followers of Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and other Pagan Gods of the Mystery Religions. New members of the Mysteries of Isis and Osiris completed their initiation with a sacramental meal."

What is your point? What difference does it make whether or not it is unique?

Also, what is the source of your information? A lot of people try to disprove Christianity by claiming that it is based on other religions and sometimes they make false statements about what these other religions teach. Are you certain that the source for your information is reliable?

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jes...ilarities.html

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

Vade Retro Satana! (Begone, Satan!)
Nunquam Suade Mihi Vana. (Suggest not vain things to me.)

This is according to Matthew 4:10 during Jesus' 40 day fast and temptation in the desert prior to his teaching.
The following is the Navarre Bible's commentary on temptation from Matthew 4:1...

"Catholic teaching tells us that there are three levels of temptation: 1) suggestion, that is, external temptation, which we can undergo without committing any sin; 2) temptations, in which we take a certain delight, whether prolonged or not, even though we do not give clear consent; this level of temptation has now become internal and there is some sinfulness in it; 3) temptation to which we consent; this is always sinful, and, since it affects the deepest part of the soul, it is definitely internal. By allowing himself to be tempted, Jesus wanted to teach us how to fight and conquer our temptations. We will do this by having trust in God and prayer, with the help of God's grace and by having fortitude."

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

"We know that wherein (the Medal's) power lies, and we protest that the graces and favors are due, not to the gold or the silver, the brass or aluminum of the Medal, but to the faith in the merits of Christ crucified,..."

Jesus takes on evil (a curse) without sinning, in order to reflect our own sinfulness,
And teaches us how to fight and conquer our sins (1 Corinthians 5:21).

Teaching people how to fight sinfulness is merited.
The Medal is a powerful means against curses,
But to share in the merits of Christ,
Involves our own suffering,
Of also being cursed,
Even without sinning,
According to what God allows.
(For example: Exodus 32:32 and Romans 9:3).

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

"Dear children!... I am your mother."

Parents share their merits with their children by passing down what they have,
And Mary teaches us how to fight sin, which as described above, is internalized temptation (Luke 2:35).

Originally Posted by Lex

"By uniting in his humanity, we also have evil removed by his divinity (e.g. receiving the Eucharist at Mass)."

Hmmmm...I don't think so....this is kind of ritual is not unique to Christianity:

"I guess you know about the Christian Eucharist, right?—the Lord's Supper. It commemorates the supper Jesus had with his disciples the night before the Romans nabbed Him and dragged him off, eventually to be crucified. Right? Christians still reenact that meal with Jesus, the meal with the God Jesus. You know this. Some Christians believe the meal is the body and blood of Jesus.

What you maybe didn't know is that Mithras' faithful celebrated a sacred meal with their God. So did followers of Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and other Pagan Gods of the Mystery Religions. New members of the Mysteries of Isis and Osiris completed their initiation with a sacramental meal."

I don't understand what you are saying.
Could you be more clear?

Originally Posted by theophilus

What is your point? What difference does it make whether or not it is unique?

Also, what is the source of your information? A lot of people try to disprove Christianity by claiming that it is based on other religions and sometimes they make false statements about what these other religions teach. Are you certain that the source for your information is reliable?

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jes...ilarities.html

My point is that the Eucharist and other Catholic/Christian rituals are not based upon the teachings of Jesus; rather, they are morphed from much earlier pagan, mystery religion's rituals. My response was directed to the statement that Jesus initiated the Eucharist during the Last Supper and that this may not be true. My sources are abundant across the internet. I haven't the time to search for and post a series of links, but if you, or anyone want to find them...you can...;o)

While I'm on the subject, a closely related topic - the first Pope/or founder of the Church of Rome is said to be Saint Peter. There is abundant information to deny this "fact" and that the real first pope was a fellow named Simon Magus, who was a Samaritan, a pagan priest and worshipped by his followers as a god. Simon Magus "converted to Christianity" (he wanted the power that Paul and Peter enjoyed and he wanted to become an Apostle of Christ. He wanted it so badly, in fact, that he attempted to buy the position from Paul...the sin of "simony" is named for him). He was baptized by Phillip and later renounced by Paul and Peter. He went to Rome long before Paul and, using his pagan background, intertwined those beliefs and rituals into Christianity while establishing the first Church of Rome.

Additionally, there is an abundance of Biblical information related to Peter - where he was - when, and if cross checked against the dates - he was never in Rome. According to Gospel, Peter was to preach among the "circumsized" (the Jews) and Paul was to carry Jesus' message to the Gentiles. Paul eventually went to Rome, Peter didn't. By the time Paul arrived, Simon was securely in control and, as you probably know, the gnostic teachings of Paul were thrown out, he was put in jail for two years and later "executed".

I am not out to disprove Christianity as I believe Christianity to be "followers of Jesus", as Buddhists are followers of the teachings of Buddha, without formal church or ritual. The Church is an organization that (through Simon Magus) morphed paganism into their dogma in order to win over the followers of the mystery religions and the sole purpose of which is the subjugation of people in order to maintain power and wealth among the leaders of the Church.

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

Vade Retro Satana! (Begone, Satan!)
Nunquam Suade Mihi Vana. (Suggest not vain things to me.)

This is also according to Mt 16:23.

The well-intentioned Peter unintentionally reflected sinfulness,
And Jesus taught the disciples about avoiding sin with him.
So, what is in a person's heart is not always clear.

The Latin is a little different in both cases;
"Vade post me, Satana!"(Mt 16:23);
"Vade, Satanas!" (Mt 4:10).

Originally Posted by Lex

My point is that the Eucharist and other Catholic/Christian rituals are not based upon the teachings of Jesus; rather, they are morphed from much earlier pagan, mystery religion's rituals. My response was directed to the statement that Jesus initiated the Eucharist during the Last Supper and that this may not be true.

How do mystery religions pray with the heart?

How do mystery religions pray with the heart?[/quote]


Good question. I don't know, but I got your point...;o). Off topic here on this thread.

Originally Posted by Lex

I don't know, but I got your point...;o). Off topic here on this thread.

I'm still only guessing what you are trying to say.

Maybe this helps...

""The Eucharist is the Sacrament of our redemption. It is the Sacrament of the Bridegroom and of the Bride. The Eucharist makes present and realizes anew in a sacramental manner the redemptive act of Christ, who 'creates' the Church, his body. Christ is united with his 'body' as the bridegroom with the bride. The perennial 'unity of the two' that exists between man and woman from the very 'beginning' is introduced into this 'great mystery' of Christ and of the Church."

The Theology of the Body, Pope John Paul II

In Catholicism,

We are baptized into the Church (metaphorically "The Body of Christ", and "The Bride of Christ")
Then we grow in love through the Eucharist (literally The Body of Christ).

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

By uniting the more visible sensory things,
Under the more intuitive desire for goodness,
We find rest in our ultimate goal of happiness.

So, love is the authority over the body (sensory things).

"If the husband is the (visible) head of the domestic body, then the wife is its (not visible) heart; and as the first holds the primacy of authority, so the second can and ought to claim the primacy of love." (Casticonnubii, 10)

And so, we don't believe in separating love from authority.

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

Besides intuition,
Avoiding contradictions through reason,
Both equally help us distinguish happiness from unhappiness.

Because authority (e.g. judgment by reason) united to love is the way to God (love, happiness).

"Dear children! You are preoccupied with material things, and you lose, thus, everything that God wants to give you. Pray then, dear children, for the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They are necessary for you, in order that you may give witness to my presence here, and to everything that I give you. Dear children, abandon yourselves to me so that I can guide you fully. Do not worry so much about material things. Thank you for having responded to my call." (April 17, 1986).

For example,
Mary talks about detachment and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

"These gifts (of the Holy Spirit) are inspired by God from without, not moved by reason from within. ...(We) need God's prompting: to perceive well our speculative reason needs understanding and our practical reason counsel; to judge rightly our speculative reason needs wisdom and our practical reason knowledge; whilst our appetitive powers must be strengthened by reverence where others are concerned, and as regards ourselves by might against dread of danger and fear (respect for holiness) against inordinate longing for pleasure." (Summa Theologica: A Concise Translation)

In Catholicism,
Reason must be united to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as wisdom.

"There are many sciences dealing with different areas of reality, but there is only one wisdom. Structurally wisdom is itself a science, drawing conclusions from premises; but what is particular to wisdom is its power to judge about everything, including its own premises." (Summa Theologica: A Concise Translation)

Because divine wisdom is reasonable.

"If a person will these impediments and veils and live in pure nakedness and poverty of spirit... his soul in its simplicity and purity will then be immediately transformed into simple and pure Wisdom, the Son of God." (The Ascent of Mount Carmel, Book 2, Chapter 15, Section 4)

Detachment associated with reasonable wisdom is the Way to God (Jesus).
(We are transformed into God, yet always at least different by history.)

"Because (the Holy Spirit) is light, he (also referred to as 'she') is certainly wisdom." (The Trinity, St. Augustine)

Just as the Holy Spirit is divine wisdom.

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

Detachment associated with reasonable wisdom is the Way to God (Jesus).

In other words,

Sensory things and reason can led us to God,
But without placing them in their hierarchical order,
Our destination becomes merely sensory things and reason.

Sensory things and reason are good things, but not goodness itself,
But the Way to God is goodness, reason, sensory things, and hierarchy in one person (Jesus).

Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy

In other words,

Sensory things and reason can lead us to God,
But without placing them in their hierarchical order,
Our destination becomes merely sensory things and reason.

Sensory things and reason are good things, but not goodness itself,
But the Way to God is goodness, reason, sensory things, and hierarchy in one person (Jesus).

Sorry, this may sound reasonable,
But I think its lacking.

This might help clarify...

"'Faith and science: Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth.' 'Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.'"

Catechism of the Catholic Church, #159