Straight back+meditation?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by David F

I was wondering if the idea was borne through a desire to stay awake or attentive (both of which can be an issue for me) or whether it was an energy flow issue.

I guess it's both and some others, but the problem with being definitive with it is, it isn't like some cat says, because of this and that. For example, you didn't say you were having an issue of falling asleep, so you aren't sitting u for that reason - that's someone elses reason, perhaps, and sitting up doesn't mean some energy flow is going to occur, so it may or may not apply.

I think miss Hepburn touched upon it somewhat by saying 'you spine will start to straighten naturally'

So, if not the energy flow theme, might I be just as well adopting a relatively comfortable sitting position?

Yep, sit comfortably without forcing the posture - indeed.

Gonna try the energy-flow concept for bit, I suspect my chakras are a little unbalanced so may be it'll help with that. TVM for the posts.

OK. Personally I'd suggest not worrying about that and simply remain aware of the experience as it is, but the next guy will say something different - and ultimately, it's your gig, no one elses.

[starling]

Originally Posted by Gem

I guess it's both and some others, but the problem with being definitive with it is, it isn't like some cat says, because of this and that. For example, you didn't say you were having an issue of falling asleep, so you aren't sitting u for that reason - that's someone elses reason, perhaps, and sitting up doesn't mean some energy flow is going to occur, so it may or may not apply.

I think miss Hepburn touched upon it somewhat by saying 'you spine will start to straighten naturally'


Yep, sit comfortably without forcing the posture - indeed.


OK. Personally I'd suggest not worrying about that and simply remain aware of the experience as it is, but the next guy will say something different

Originally Posted by Gem

- and ultimately, it's your gig, no one elses.

Indeed it is but some times just a little hint goes long way and its matter of trying ideas as they come along. I'm here to learn as much as well as other stuff.

TVM again.

[jonesboy]

Most often I have found that people will say it felt like they were asleep but not asleep.

They were gone but not sleeping.

What is happening is you are hitting depths but you don't have the energy to sustain the depth so you pass out.

It is a good thing.

All the best

[crystalexoskeleton]

I don't think it's really needed to have a 'straight back' and I'm sure theres probably seasoned meditators who can't straighten their backs for whatever medical reasons. The best position to meditate in is the one that is most comfortable for you.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by David F

Indeed it is but some times just a little hint goes long way and its matter of trying ideas as they come along. I'm here to learn as much as well as other stuff.

TVM again.

Well, we tend to find the collection of hints entail much contradiction, and as for what is happening to you, or important in your case, certainly, that's for you to say - and you never did say you were falling asleep, but regardless, sleep is increasingly a subject, so what do we have here? It's not a coordinated engagement, but a hodge podge of 'stuff people already know', regardless of its relevance to anything you said. Tell as 'knowledge' is discourse, and when people talk together it is conversation; these are not the same thing. The meditation is like conversation and doesn't resemble discourse, and we can't really be sure which way conversation will go or where it'll end up - we don't have predetermined conversations - like when you go on a first date, that social anxiety is all about the uncertainty of how conversation will go - but it does go, and it works itself out.

This isn't really a digression, more like an interlude, because the posture of the body and the contents of the mind are interwoven, as sensation arrives at emotion and emotion manifests in the sensation, and the entire life, with its attitudes, confidences, insecurities and so on and etc are emotional/mental contents, and also, are tensions in the body and shapes of the posture, so metaphorically speaking, there is conversation, an ongoing communique, between the function of mind and the shape of form - they 'talk together' as it were; and hence, as Miss Hepburn suggested, the meditative process is equally a natural motion toward good posture, and as you are tending toward posture, as indicated by what you did say - and the chair as means to it - that's the way to go.

[sunsoul]

Gem, the straight back is a well-known antidote to falling asleep. There is nothing particularly theoretical or subjective about it. We can't separate ourselves from each other completely and somehow say that our experience is completely particular and there is zero universality at all!

Of course, there is an element of subjectivity in terms of how we approach our practice and what works or doesn't work for us as individuals. However, that doesn't in itself predicate the usefulness of sharing common good practice (often shared over countless millennia from experienced practitioners).

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

Gem, the straight back is a well-known antidote to falling asleep. There is nothing particularly theoretical or subjective about it. We can't separate ourselves from each other completely and somehow say that our experience is completely particular and there is zero universality at all!

Yes, sitting up prevents falling asleep, generally speaking, but my point is, if the meditator isn't falling asleep, then that's not their particular reason.

Of course, there is an element of subjectivity in terms of how we approach our practice and what works or doesn't work for us as individuals. However, that doesn't in itself predicate the usefulness of sharing common good practice (often shared over countless millennia from experienced practitioners).

I agree, but not because it's a tradition. I have sat the posture as tratition suggests, but understand the nuances as an experience. Theses nuances are universal to people, but not exactly definitive and probably have slight variations depending on different bodies. In David's case, I can't know what is exactly relevant, and that's entirely up to him to say.

[Puggy]

Originally Posted by David F

Well my spine, regrettably and unfortunately, isn't that straight to start with there is some curvature in it.

Interesting ideas though.

The concept that of keeping it straight to stop falling asleep has always seemed a little bit curious perhaps to me......I could be twiddling my fingers to do the same thing (?)

A straight back and posture is always better by definition of course, that isn't lost on me.

Some new ideas, terms and links here to lo further into and you never know what's going to be a BIG step.......

I too am of the dodgy back brigade. Office chair or bean bag works well for me. But the office chair makes me feel like I'm taking things seriously as opposed to the bean bag.