Lucid waking.......Rupert Spira

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

...

It's a good model for lucid waking.

The difficulty with the lucid-waking is that we think about it using as reference our waking state, not our non-physical state of which most of us have no recollection.

While awake, when we plan to have a lucid dream we think in terms of recognizing we're dreaming doing some "reality checks", or observing some physical-perspective anomalies. E.g. "I can fly" ... so I must be dreaming, let me check that I can pass through the wall (?)

We have no such reference to check for when awake. It is useless to say "I can't fly" ... so I must be awake, let me check that I can't pass through the wall. Most of us have a quite distorted opinion about how it feels to be the entity that incarnated as us.

It seems there is a way around that, by firstly getting into a state that approximates the lucid-waking state from the lucid-dreaming state. Once primed, it should be easier to do it directly from the waking state.

Originally Posted by inavalan

The difficulty with the lucid-waking is that we think about it using as reference our waking state, not our non-physical state of which most of us have no recollection.

The lucid dream analogy works reasonable well for the end-state but not the means for attaining the end-state and for some of the reasons you mentioned.

It seems to me lucid dreaming practices actively program mind whereas lucid waking practices such as those of Advaita passively deprogram mind.

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It seems to me lucid dreaming practices actively program mind whereas lucid waking practices such as those of Advaita passively deprogram mind.

Can you recommend some texts?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The lucid dream analogy works reasonable well for the end-state but not the means for attaining the end-state and for some of the reasons you mentioned.

It seems to me lucid dreaming practices actively program mind whereas lucid waking practices such as those of Advaita passively deprogram mind.

"Lucid dreaming" means to be aware of your awake-self while dreaming. You probably mean something different.

I don't know what you call "end-state", but taking it ad litteram there is no such thing. There is no "end". Probably you're referring some non-dualist concept, and I disagree with non-dualist beliefs, like advaita and such. As any dogma, advaita programs minds. Once your mind is programmed, everything you experience confirms your beliefs and expectations.

Surely, I don't intend to change your beliefs, and obviously in matters of faith there is no argumentation.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE #1 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Or what I refer to as the waking equivalent of a lucid dream. https://youtu.be/zGE1xlMUUhM

Lucid waking is a natural progression from conscious sleep meditations ... particularly the lucid dream aspect of it.

The Tibetan Buddhist Yogi Milarepa was my guide to that progression.

Rupert Spira describes the experience nicely.

Originally Posted by inavalan

"Lucid dreaming" means to be aware of your awake-self while dreaming. You probably mean something different.

I would frame it as lucid dreaming is a shift in identity from dream character to dreamer so it's not that the dream character becomes aware of the dreamer but the dreamer becomes aware of the dream character, in effect replacing dream character identification with dreamer identification. The dream is realized for what it is.

The same is true for lucid waking.

Originally Posted by alanantic

Can you recommend some texts?

In essence what we're talking about is some level of non-dual realization and I would say the simplest first practice is meditation. It's like plowing the field for all the subsequent seeds that will be planted. Vedanta usually incorporates Patañjali's Yoga Sutras however I prefer Buddhist techniques and I started meditating a good decade before I came across Vedanta. Either system is up to the task at hand.

Honestly there are so many texts it's hard to know where to start. Meditation is covered under Raja Yoga and then we have Karma, Bhakti and Jnana Yoga. Here's a bunch of stuff and some of it might resonate, some of it might not. It's mostly figuring out what works for you at any given point in time.

The book "Vivekananda: The Yogas and Other Works" is a great primer and the contents of that book can also be found here for free - https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...lete_works.htm


Here are two great YT channels covering everything Advaita and I find it helpful to have copies of both The Ten Principle Upanishads & Bhagavad Gita handy as they are referenced often.

Vedanta Society of New York - https://www.youtube.com/c/VedantaNY

And particularly these:
Raja Yoga Part 1 https://youtu.be/Bj5_lNQdJPw Part 2 https://youtu.be/e9uBaJEKgOw
Karma Yoga Part 1 https://youtu.be/-rgNWIeF9Qo Part 2 https://youtu.be/n-SUJ0Vwelk
Bhakti Yoga https://youtu.be/dDIdHh2-mF8
Jnana Yoga https://youtu.be/EijmfagFw20
Vivekananda's Jnana Yoga Playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylkI...VedantaNewYork

Arsha Bodha Center - https://www.youtube.com/c/ArshaBodha...miTadatmananda

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I would frame it as lucid dreaming is a shift in identity from dream character to dreamer so it's not that the dream character becomes aware of the dreamer but the dreamer becomes aware of the dream character, in effect replacing dream character identification with dreamer identification. The dream is realized for what it is.

The same is true for lucid waking.

Hmm ~ three sentences, so I’m within the rules quoting this!

Awareness, self-aware even in it’s chosen hypnotic trance, to feel fully the play of polarities, flows freely, stagnating nowhere, blurring boundaries between subject and object or we may say, between in-form consciousness and void-centric witness consciousness. Kind of bi-location of consciousness in a continuum of vibrant stillness, possibly enabled by the ever present self-existent bliss current.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I would frame it as lucid dreaming is a shift in identity from dream character to dreamer so it's not that the dream character becomes aware of the dreamer but the dreamer becomes aware of the dream character, in effect replacing dream character identification with dreamer identification. The dream is realized for what it is.

The same is true for lucid waking.

I am surprised that you can say that ... The dreamer and the dream-character are the same awareness (not in the "all is one" cliche) focused in different states. When you are awake, your awareness is focused in the physical framework (physical senses). When you dream, you are focused in a non-physical state. Your the dreamer becomes aware of the dream character is a misunderstanding. It is a partial change of focus.

"Lucid waking" is similar. Your awareness is focused in the physical framework, while your inner-self state is out of focus. Getting lucid while awake means partially refocusing into your inner-self state (access to inner senses, memories, ...), but primarily still focused in the physical.

Surely, you don't have to believe me.

[alanantic]

Thanks a bunch, JustASimpleGuy! I've had the "lucid awakening" twice, and it only lasted minutes. I've been trying to recapture those moments ever since.