How to differentiate between astral projection and dreaming

[Kontufuto]

Sorry but THIS IS NOT TRUE! What goes on in the mind is clearly not what goes on in the Astral. The Astral is OUTSIDE of one's mind not inside of it.

Perhaps reading some of the "wall of text" as you call it would be a good idea so you can wrap your head around the various concepts. You definitely want to get this straight so you know what you are experiencing and can understand and interpret what other's are saying on these threads.

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by Kontufuto

Sorry but THIS IS NOT TRUE! What goes on in the mind is clearly not what goes on in the Astral. The Astral is OUTSIDE of one's mind not inside of it.

Perhaps reading some of the "wall of text" as you call it would be a good idea so you can wrap your head around the various concepts. You definitely want to get this straight so you know what you are experiencing and can understand and interpret what other's are saying on these threads.

Well, honestly, we don't know where the astral begins and the mind ends... assuming that they're even separate "things". We could just be discussing consciousness as a whole... where mind, consciousness, astral and all things are simply one. :)

Just food for thought.

It's hard to say one idea is "NOT TRUE" over another at this point, because we really have no idea what is what. :)

[Kontufuto]

Based on this logic one is the mind and not a spirit. IF that is food for thought i will go hungry.

[Xanth]

I don't quite follow what you're saying. Could you clarify that?

I don't know if this helps but, in my experience the Astral realm is actually a step into a higher vibration 3rd dimension, so it's much like the 3ird dimension yet very malleable and matter doesn't seem to be as solid as it is in the physical world. In my experiences, the difference is that Astral FEELS completely unlike the physical realm, you can feel the energy of all the things around you, touching things send shockwaves through you, you're astral body might merge into things as they are not solid. Things seem to be made of fuzz. You don't feel the need to breath and no time seems to ever pass. Everything is vivid, the sounds, the colours, everything.

[Kontufuto]

Originally Posted by OnniArt

I don't know if this helps but, in my experience the Astral realm is actually a step into a higher vibration 3rd dimension, so it's much like the 3ird dimension yet very malleable and matter doesn't seem to be as solid as it is in the physical world. In my experiences, the difference is that Astral FEELS completely unlike the physical realm, you can feel the energy of all the things around you, touching things send shockwaves through you, you're astral body might merge into things as they are not solid. Things seem to be made of fuzz. You don't feel the need to breath and no time seems to ever pass. Everything is vivid, the sounds, the colours, everything.

I don't personally see the Astral realm this way at all. I see it from the point of view as encompassing what you consider not just one dimension but ALL dimensions. I think you are right about vibrations but not just higher but 'different' vibrations. Like different frequencies of scale. And there are harmonics of scale which take you to your higher selves. One can vibrate at a frequency and that energy will match that 'dimension'. What you observe or sense in that frequency is based on your harmony or dissonance of association. I like to 'expand out' so ordinary human senses are replaced by spiritual senses which are like super senses - totally different than what you can sense in the here and now while reading this post!

[Kontufuto]

Originally Posted by Xanth

I don't quite follow what you're saying. Could you clarify that?

I was taking your consideration that everything is in the mind and drawing a simple analogy. I don't see it this way at all but it is a consideration that some people can draw if they comprehend it this way. You've got your experiences and your understanding and your agreements so why mess with it if you don't have to?

Based on my experience I can say that it's not true for me (yet).

But I know many people who have got it proved and many of them used to be very skeptical, even as skeptical as the beloved Summerlander ;)

So I can only say that I believe, but I can't know until I have experienced proof myself, which I have to some extent but not enough to beat my rational mind.

And remember that science used to say that the earth was flat to later on discover that it was round.

It would be close-minded to say it's mind created. So for now I believe in both until it's verified by experience. I mean some events in the (astral, phase ...) needs to be mind-created since I sometimes control what I experience. But you have heard of people access information about the physical world they didn't previously knew about, how can that be mind-created? So that's how I believe that all happens in the astral.

And it doesn't matter what side I take (even if I am on both) because none of them can explain their arguments scientifically. It's all based on experience.

Originally Posted by Kontufuto

I was taking your consideration that everything is in the mind and drawing a simple analogy. I don't see it this way at all but it is a consideration that some people can draw if they comprehend it this way. You've got your experiences and your understanding and your agreements so why mess with it if you don't have to?

RMAOTFL

I don't know what Xanth was even doing by defending my statements in the manner that he did. The truth is that Xanth actually agrees with your views but he won't admit it because he is trying so hard to sound clever and reasonable!

Chris posted:

And remember that science used to say that the earth was flat to later on discover that it was round.

It would be close-minded to say it's mind created. So for now I believe in both until it's verified by experience. I mean some events in the (astral, phase ...) needs to be mind-created since I sometimes control what I experience. But you have heard of people access information about the physical world they didn't previously knew about, how can that be mind-created? So that's how I believe that all happens in the astral.

And it doesn't matter what side I take (even if I am on both) because none of them can explain their arguments scientifically. It's all based on experience.

Good point Chris. But it wasn't really "science" that said that. It was people and their ignorance. OOBEs/AP/LD (the phase) is largely created or at least influenced if you won't accept "create" - by the mind. You make a good point in that some experiences APPEAR to be evident of something more... in the beyond. This is why I am still on the fence when it comes to the possibility telepathy or shared dreaming in such a state of mind. I've had such experiences... only I have not been able to rule out the mundane explanations for them.

By the way, I am actually the opposite to the sceptics that you know. I started out loving esoteric cosmology and contemplating the idea that the phase state is a glimpse of the afterlife. Experience, however, made me sceptical overtime. I guess I never really adhered to the initial belief system.

Still, people should be entitled to draw their own conclusions.

Agares posted:

I know a lot of people will dismiss this experience as simply a dream, but I was in full control of my actions and thoughts.

Lucid dreamers often comment that their experiences seemed so "real". The lucid dreaming state often provides more control as you are now aware that the environment is a dream world. Those who believe that the dream is their creation often have more control. In my view, you described a WILD. Sleep paralysis can often entail strange sensations and I agree that the realism is phenomenal.

It is a hybrid state between sleeping and waking. They call it by many names, the most popular/pragmatic being "lucid dreaming". Only the experience seems to have more in common with wakefulness than ordinary dreaming.

The pineal gland, which plays a part in regulating sleep cycles, is closely related to our genitalia. Hence the morning glory when you wake up in the morning. whether you masturbated or not makes no difference apart from most likely inspiring a sexual experience. Aleister Crowley was a nut job! LOL!

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by Kontufuto

I was taking your consideration that everything is in the mind and drawing a simple analogy. I don't see it this way at all but it is a consideration that some people can draw if they comprehend it this way. You've got your experiences and your understanding and your agreements so why mess with it if you don't have to?

I still don't have a clue what you're talking about.