How to be a Buddhist

Originally Posted by sky123

Just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Correct, we should in my humble opinion be very exact in what it is that does exist or how it exists if it's outside our experience. I feel this is the pinnacle of buddhist understanding.


As long as I have not experienced something, but only heard of such an experience all I can know is that there is a description of a possible experience. In actuality however the experience exists only as an idea or thought as far as I am concerned.


If I have had a similar experience (past tense) it only exists in reality as a memory.


das ding an sich(the experience itself) was a momentary construct based on sense impressions and the natural inclination of the mind to see it as one experience.. It arises, it Is and then passes as all experiences.


Even a long standing experience as say a relationship with another person is not a thing, just a continuous ever changing set of experiences we group together and call it a long standing relationship.


From a Buddhist point of view I think it's wise to see things from that perspective..


With Love
Eelco

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by sky123

Don't believe everything written in text books Rain, just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What do I believe that is written in text books? What did I say does not exist?

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by Gem

The basic inquiry, then, is what remains in the absence of experience,...

Experience occurs with or without thought or conceptual overlays we apply to experience. So it's not the absence of experience we seek. We seek non-conceptual, actual experience. Experience without the "me" that is formed by association of experience and what I am thinking about it. Included in this conceptual way of living is applying thoughts about my self into or onto whatever experience is occurring. Usually, thought itself is a big part of the "experience." What remains? Well that question means one is still looking for thought to be a part of the experience. Thought does not remain, but experiencing and the experiencer does. Any question that arises that is entertained by the attention just pulls one back into conceptual thought centered experience.

Originally Posted by Gem

the meditator is only trying to see what is already there, and isn't trying to make anything happen.

Not "see" what is already there, experience what is already there. Why say something is not there that is trying to make something happen? "I" am trying to make something happen. Just depends what that "I" is if you get anywhere or not. It depends on what your self understanding is in those moments you are trying. It depends on what this "trying" is or means to you.

Thinking "nothing is there to try" implies consciousness has no knowledge, no being, no sense of self or identity without focusing on thought. This implies the "I" is only made up of thought. I've said it before but thought is not conscious. Think of the ramifications of that fact. It means consciousness imbues thought with life, with meaning, as thought itself has none of these things in itself. It means we don't have an ego, we make one. We are actively using thought and memory and the conceptual world to create a self.

Thought does not contain a self and never will. There is only one us, one consciousness in this body. It creates a self based on this body and memory and thought or it doesn't. It lives and experiences a conceptual dualistic reality or it doesn't experience a conceptual dualistic reality. It's the same one doing one or the other. There is no "you" that only exists within thought that you have to somehow escape from or experience things without. To escape or experience life in a new way, we just stop creating the old way. To be a new self, abandon the old one. What we are doing makes this moment what it is. But yea, to know now can be different requires self understanding, and that requires self observation, and self awareness and on and on lol. It can take like 5000 incarnations to wake up. But then also one can be awake and not manifest that in any particular incarnation because they are here for something else.

There are probably a lot of "liberated" souls walking around this planet that have zero interest in religion or spirituality or philosophy. They are too busy caring for and helping others selflessly to bother with such things.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Experience occurs with or without thought or conceptual overlays we apply to experience. So it's not the absence of experience we seek. We seek non-conceptual, actual experience. Experience without the "me" that is formed by association of experience and what I am thinking about it. Included in this conceptual way of living is applying thoughts about my self into or onto whatever experience is occurring. Usually, thought itself is a big part of the "experience." What remains? Well that question means one is still looking for thought to be a part of the experience. Thought does not remain, but experiencing and the experiencer does. Any question that arises that is entertained by the attention just pulls one back into conceptual thought centered experience.



Not "see" what is already there, experience what is already there. Why say something is not there that is trying to make something happen? "I" am trying to make something happen. Just depends what that "I" is if you get anywhere or not. It depends on what your self understanding is in those moments you are trying. It depends on what this "trying" is or means to you.

Well, people are generally always trying to make something happen, and generally find it very difficult to stop doing that, so we start off with 'just observe'... Not because you do that observing, but because that observing is already the way it is.

Thinking "nothing is there to try" implies consciousness has no knowledge, no being, no sense of self or identity without focusing on thought. This implies the "I" is only made up of thought. I've said it before but thought is not conscious. Think of the ramifications of that fact. It means consciousness imbues thought with life, with meaning, as thought itself has none of these things in itself. It means we don't have an ego, we make one. We are actively using thought and memory and the conceptual world to create a self.


Thought does not contain a self and never will. There is only one us, one consciousness in this body. It creates a self based on this body and memory and thought or it doesn't. It lives and experiences a conceptual dualistic reality or it doesn't experience a conceptual dualistic reality. It's the same one doing one or the other. There is no "you" that only exists within thought that you have to somehow escape from or experience things without. To escape or experience life in a new way, we just stop creating the old way. To be a new self, abandon the old one. What we are doing makes this moment what it is. But yea, to know now can be different requires self understanding, and that requires self observation, and self awareness and on and on lol. It can take like 5000 incarnations to wake up. But then also one can be awake and not manifest that in any particular incarnation because they are here for something else.

There are probably a lot of "liberated" souls walking around this planet that have zero interest in religion or spirituality or philosophy. They are too busy caring for and helping others selflessly to bother with such things.

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by Gem

'just observe'...

Seems too simplistic though as one will observe with their beliefs and opinions and thoughts. But maybe some will get it. Some probably do. But then they had it already.

[_dagmar_]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Seems too simplistic though as one will observe with their beliefs and opinions and thoughts. But maybe some will get it. Some probably do. But then they had it already.

Better observe the beliefs and opinions and thoughts. Not with them.

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by _dagmar_

Better observe the beliefs and opinions and thoughts. Not with them.

The best observation has no observer. The present moment minus verbage.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Seems too simplistic though as one will observe with their beliefs and opinions and thoughts. But maybe some will get it. Some probably do. But then they had it already.

Beliefs are thought's we think are true, so it's all thoughts (and they are not particularly important) which are observable, coming up - going away. I don't think just observe is complicated in principle. Ya just feel one of your hands and see what it feels like. That 'looking to see' is just observe. Pretty simple in principle, not all that easy in practice, but the ability to 'see it as it is' with out trying to make it 'as you want it to be' is fundamental to everything else.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Eelco

It seems that a 2500 year old religion or philosophy makes for quite the discussion about how to understand what exactly was taught.
Take the scriptures literraly, metaphorically or jumble them together.
Incorporate new additions or i sights, stick to the oldest known writings or what have you.
Even thoigh i like a lively debate. When it comes to bhuddism I realize that bickering about it may actually be detrimental.

So take what you can from teachers, scriptures what you can to guide you, but above all..

Practice.
Practice consentration.
Practice wisdom.
Practice virtue.

From that all else will fall into place for you.

With Love

Practicing all those things you mentioned, through your own bickering is a wise thing. I like your thoughts on this.

Thankyou for sharing yourself.

[_dagmar_]

Originally Posted by Rain95

The best observation has no observer. The present moment minus verbage.

You will always find yourself observing.