How to be a Buddhist

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by sky123

What about beyond consciousness ?

No it hasn't come from a book etc.

What are you imagining yourself to be? The one that would see what is beyond consciousness? That one, that thinks it can see what is beyond consciousness, is commonly referred to as consciousness. See what you are doing there? You have conceptualized yourself as something that is not consciousness which is fine but like I said, the normal definition of that word is you.

Really to discuss philosophy we need a word in our language to represent ourselves. A word to represent the one that has stuff, has thoughts, has beliefs, has conditioning, and this one is that which perceives. It is the lens of the camera. This one cannot be perceived itself. Nothing can look back at it because it it that which looks.

People came up with the word "consciousness" to represent the essence of that which is aware. That which is aware it exists. Anything you can look at, be aware of, like your thoughts, is by definition not you. Is not consciousness. Anything I perceive cannot be me because I am that which perceives. I am the point of perception. The view.

If I can look at an apple, it means I am not that apple. If I can look at a thought, I am not that thought. if I can look at desire, dreams, ideas, beliefs, it means I am not those things.

That's the point of a teaching like to not identify with mind. It doesn't means to "do" something about thoughts or what not, it means to understand as a reality you are not those things. To apply that self understanding, to actualize it. To live it, experience that understanding in each moment.

The realization you are not thought, not in the way we do it as we just do it in little ways, but a person like maybe a Buddha, who realizes it in it's totality, it changes perception. It changes experience in a profound way. When I say we do it in a "little" way I mean we always use thought as a reference point. We look at thought with thought in other words. That's why hardly anybody ever reaches enlightenment. We're stuck because we are either not willing or able to drop the identification with thought. We don't know or can't figure out how to "look" or perceive without thought as our reference point.

I'd add somebody who has realized they are not thought fully, still has thought and can use it. It's just their perspective or relationship with it is vastly different.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

What are you imagining yourself to be? The one that would see what is beyond consciousness? That one, that thinks it can see what is beyond consciousness, is commonly referred to as consciousness. See what you are doing there? You have conceptualized yourself as something that is not consciousness which is fine but like I said, the normal definition of that word is you.

Really to discuss philosophy we need a word in our language to represent ourselves. A word to represent the one that has stuff, has thoughts, has beliefs, has conditioning, and this one is that which perceives. It is the lens of the camera. This one cannot be perceived itself. Nothing can look back at it because it it that which looks.

People came up with the word "consciousness" to represent the essence of that which is aware. That which is aware it exists. Anything you can look at, be aware of, like your thoughts, is by definition not you. Is not consciousness. Anything I perceive cannot be me because I am that which perceives. I am the point of perception. The view.

If I can look at an apple, it means I am not that apple. If I can look at a thought, I am not that thought. if I can look at desire, dreams, ideas, beliefs, it means I am not those things.

That's the point of a teaching like to not identify with mind. It doesn't means to "do" something about thoughts or what not, it means to understand as a reality you are not those things. To apply that self understanding, to actualize it. To live it, experience that understanding in each moment.

The realization you are not thought, not in the way we do it as we just do it in little ways, but a person like maybe a Buddha, who realizes it in it's totality, it changes perception. It changes experience in a profound way. When I say we do it in a "little" way I mean we always use thought as a reference point. We look at thought with thought in other words. That's why hardly anybody ever reaches enlightenment. We're stuck because we are either not willing or able to drop the identification with thought. We don't know or can't figure out how to "look" or perceive without thought as our reference point.

I'd add somebody who has realized they are not thought fully, still has thought and can use it. It's just their perspective or relationship with it is vastly different.

What about beyond consciousness ?

Beyond consciousness is the great unknown mystery of all potential.
As soon as it becomes conscious it isn't beyond grasping and has become the source of craving.

With Love
Eelco

[Rain95]

Dhammapada Verse - sayings of Buddha

All mental phenomena have a thought focused consciousness as their cause.
In this arrangement, consciousness is submissive to thought, experience is mind made.
If consciousness is no longer identified with thought and thinking,
it has Buddha nature, (rigpa) experience is then non-conceptual, non-thought based
such a consciousness finds the type of happiness that does not leave (sukha)., the bliss of being
that is not transient.
Pāli; Prakrit: धम्मपद Dhammapada

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Beyond consciousness is the great unknown mystery of all potential.
As soon as it becomes conscious it isn't beyond grasping and has become the source of craving.

With Love
Eelco

Are you saying grasping and craving are inherent aspects of consciousness and if such things were removed somehow it would not be consciousness anymore?

Originally Posted by Rain95

Are you saying grasping and craving are inherent aspects of consciousness and if such things were removed somehow it would not be consciousness anymore?

Grasping to remain conscious of it.
Yes you could say it like that.

If we let it go by instantly, we are no longer conscious of it.

Take that Dhamma verse. Some translations say everything is a mental phenomenon. All is mind.consciousnes is based on causes and this subject to the 3 characteristics. Subject to arise and pass away.
So consciousness itself is what needs to be let go at some point.

With love
Eelco

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Dhammapada Verse - sayings of Buddha

All mental phenomena have a thought focused consciousness as their cause.
In this arrangement, consciousness is submissive to thought, experience is mind made.
If consciousness is no longer identified with thought and thinking,
it has Buddha nature, (rigpa) experience is then non-conceptual, non-thought based
such a consciousness finds the type of happiness that does not leave (sukha)., the bliss of being
that is not transient.
Pāli; Prakrit: धम्मपद Dhammapada

If you drop the ' I am ' what's left.... awareness, pure awareness. I am not consciousness as you said, I am awareness. You don't try and cultivate it because it's who you are. Another way of looking at it is a detachment from the ' self ' illusion.

Beyond consciousness

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by sky123

If you drop the ' I am ' what's left.... I am awareness.

A murderer is aware of his victims. Not a spiritual or higher trait there. The definition of awareness is knowledge or perception of a situation or fact. Awareness is a quality or aspect of consciousness. A person or conscious being can be aware or not aware. Awareness comes and goes. Some people are aware of a lot and some are aware of practically nothing. In fact, it's possible to have zero self awareness if one blindly and unconsciously follows their thoughts and their corresponding emotions.

Thank goodness awareness is not what you are so it can be cultivated. Consciousness evolves by becoming more aware, aware of more. Mindfulness requires a high degree of self awareness. All spiritual progress is about higher awareness. Insight is seeing or noticing something present that you were not previously aware of. It is a growth in awareness. Consciousness becomes aware of more and more. That's how it evolves. As consciousness becomes aware of what it is, it also becomes aware of what it is not. Thus, false self is discarded in each moment if it arises.

Really a good term for us in a spiritual descriptive sense is conscious aware energy. Conceptually something has to be aware. It's about how much stuff something can see or understand. If two people are sitting on a bench and one is only focused on thinking about somebody they are mad at and the other is aware of their thoughts and the sounds of the birds and the feel of the breeze on their face and the sun and light on the trees and grass, one person is aware of more than the other. One person has a higher awareness than the other. As we evolve and grow, our awareness grows. Awareness goes hand and hand with intelligence. Intelligence is another aspect of consciousness. Intelligence can be said to be the ability to see things from different sides, from all sides. Higher intelligence requires higher awareness.

Consciousness never drops the "I am" what it drops is false identification.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Rain95

A murderer is aware of his victims. Not a spiritual or higher trait there. The definition of awareness is knowledge or perception of a situation or fact. Awareness is a quality or aspect of consciousness. A person or conscious being can be aware or not aware. Awareness comes and goes. Some people are aware of a lot and some are aware of practically nothing. In fact, it's possible to have zero self awareness if one blindly and unconsciously follows their thoughts and their corresponding emotions.

Thank goodness awareness is not what you are so it can be cultivated. Consciousness evolves by becoming more aware, aware of more. Mindfulness requires a high degree of self awareness. All spiritual progress is about higher awareness. Insight is seeing or noticing something present that you were not previously aware of. It is a growth in awareness. Consciousness becomes aware of more and more. That's how it evolves. As consciousness becomes aware of what it is, it also becomes aware of what it is not. Thus, false self is discarded in each moment if it arises.

Really a good term for us in a spiritual descriptive sense is conscious aware energy. Conceptually something has to be aware. It's about how much stuff something can see or understand. If two people are sitting on a bench and one is only focused on thinking about somebody they are mad at and the other is aware of their thoughts and the sounds of the birds and the feel of the breeze on their face and the sun and light on the trees and grass, one person is aware of more than the other. One person has a higher awareness than the other. As we evolve and grow, our awareness grows. Awareness goes hand and hand with intelligence. Intelligence is another aspect of consciousness. Intelligence can be said to be the ability to see things from different sides, from all sides. Higher intelligence requires higher awareness.

Consciousness never drops the "I am" what it drops is false identification.

In the Buddhist context, 'consciousness' relates directly to the senses, so it's reasonably specifically defined, but in contexts outside of Buddhism, consciousness is basically the means of subjective experience. In general speech I can say I'm aware of the experience or conscious of the experience interchangeably, but in the spiritual dialogue we generally refer to this presence of being in some way, that consciousness or that awareness which is prior to or the means to perceptions of the experience. The basic inquiry, then, is what remains in the absence of experience, as experience is change whereas the means to it is constant. Then we surmise that experience is reliant on the awareness.


In our Western discourse we talk about the unconscious or the subconscious to imply that there are things happening which we are not conscious of, and becoming conscious of these things is talked about as being more deeply aware.


The spontaneous clarity doesn't seem to enhance this facet of becoming more keenly aware, but the deliberate practice aims toward that end. This isn't an ambition in the normal sense because the meditator is only trying to see what is already there, and isn't trying to make anything happen. Hence the spontaneous 'awakening' and the deliberate practice are both choiceless, but in slightly different ways.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

A murderer is aware of his victims. Not a spiritual or higher trait there. The definition of awareness is knowledge or perception of a situation or fact. Awareness is a quality or aspect of consciousness. A person or conscious being can be aware or not aware. Awareness comes and goes. Some people are aware of a lot and some are aware of practically nothing. In fact, it's possible to have zero self awareness if one blindly and unconsciously follows their thoughts and their corresponding emotions.

Thank goodness awareness is not what you are so it can be cultivated. Consciousness evolves by becoming more aware, aware of more. Mindfulness requires a high degree of self awareness. All spiritual progress is about higher awareness. Insight is seeing or noticing something present that you were not previously aware of. It is a growth in awareness. Consciousness becomes aware of more and more. That's how it evolves. As consciousness becomes aware of what it is, it also becomes aware of what it is not. Thus, false self is discarded in each moment if it arises.

Really a good term for us in a spiritual descriptive sense is conscious aware energy. Conceptually something has to be aware. It's about how much stuff something can see or understand. If two people are sitting on a bench and one is only focused on thinking about somebody they are mad at and the other is aware of their thoughts and the sounds of the birds and the feel of the breeze on their face and the sun and light on the trees and grass, one person is aware of more than the other. One person has a higher awareness than the other. As we evolve and grow, our awareness grows. Awareness goes hand and hand with intelligence. Intelligence is another aspect of consciousness. Intelligence can be said to be the ability to see things from different sides, from all sides. Higher intelligence requires higher awareness.

Consciousness never drops the "I am" what it drops is false identification.

Don't believe everything written in text books Rain, just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.